Tcm

[david_e]

We have some weird views that's for sure, comes from the Politics of Envy, very different in other countries such as the US. Have been on the phone to Eire most of the morning and it is refreshing how friendly, open and up front they are.

Is Antibes one of the spots where you buy your berth?

 

[tcm]

yes, but most are like that in the med.

 

[petem]

Asked the wife but she says her memory isn't that good. No piles thank you very much.

 

[petem]

Re: How to be happy

I'm glad your happy. This was intended to be a fairly lighthearted thread and I wasn't sure where it would go. Isn't that the point? I was also a bit curious as to how you'd reply. Many apologies if I've offended you and I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone elses success or happiness.

Your right I should buy a boat. I enjoyed myself when I had mine but it came to the point when I was having to sacrifice too many other things to keep it, so it had to go. I'm not even bitter, honest!

However, I can remember a few years ago a post you made saying that you were happy with your T48 and didn't want anything bigger. I think you'd had to shell out on a new office or something. I tried to find the posting but it seems to have dropped off the end. So, what's changed? Why did you go for the big boat? I will be genuinely interested if big is best. Even if it is rather academic for a pov like myself.

 

[petem]

IR35

One minute I was a one man band operating as a limitd company. Shares split 50% for me and 50% for Mrs Petem. Paid myself a small salary and the rest in dividends. A little NI to pay, used all may wife's tax free and basic rate tax allowance. Between us, very little higher rate tax to pay. Now, all this was perfectly legal and a totally acceptable way of avoiding the payment of tax.

Along comes Gordon Brown. Decides that one man bands (e.g. Computer consultants operating as limited companies) should pay all their income as PAYE. Suddenly £10k per year worse off. Boat has to go.

Now, I've no problem with paying the same tax as anyone else and am grateful for the years that I could avoid paying so much tax.

However, there are still many directors of smaller and larger companies who receive a vast proportion of their income as dividends, which aren't liable for NI, etc. It does make me feel that the chancellor has picked on a subset of those operating as limited companies. I don't blame anyone for AVOIDING the payment of tax. Good on you. It's just that sometimes there seems to be one rule for some and another for others.

Rant finished!

 

[ToMo]

Re: IR35

It's because you describe yourself as a 'Consultant' - Mr Browns' civil servie thingies don't like anyone else to have that description!
Now change the main trading title to computer supplies or computer peripherals or software suppliers, and you are in a whole new ball game.
Probably better to start new company, but no doubt others can advise you better.....now for goodness sake go out and buy a RIB with an enormous engine and terrorise a few yachties...they're all civil servants or letcherers (ask Claymore!)
TôMö

 

[jfm]

Re: IR35 is OK imho

Not making any comments on the rights and wrongs but the reason 'puter consultants got picked on with IR35 was that most of em were de facto employees of their so-called clients. They had no capital at risk, longish term contracts one at a time, and turned up at the same place of work every day for ages, then moved on to the next employer, erm I mean client. That's quite different from shareholders of trading companies with their own capital at risk and loads of clients/customers. It wouldn't have been so bad if the 'puter bods had not then compounded things by paying salaries etc to wives to get double tax allowances etc.

The "one rule for some and another rule for others" was exactly Gordon Brown's point - he wanted to put all employees, actual employees and de facto employees, on the same footing. All IMHO

 

[petem]

I agree.....

But I do think Computer Contractors, who are generally 'Children of Thatcher' and deffo not Labour party donors, were a little victimised. What I am saying is that nobody should be able to use dividends to avoid paying their fair share of income tax. That includes me and everyone else.

But, instead of having plenty of disposable income which I used to buy and maintain a boat (and keep many hard working people in jobs) I'm now paying more tax to fund single mothers, DSS cheats, the railways, wars in countries that have little to do with us, labour party special advisers, etc, etc.

 

[coliholic]

Re: IR35 is OK imho

I'm with you on this one jfm. I run an employment agency (not computer industry) and until IR35, know many Engineers working this Ltd Co scam that paid no tax at all for years. E.g. they run Mybiz Ltd for a year or so, then fold it when the tax man asks too many questions, or all letters returned "Not known at this address" and start up Mynewbiz Ltd and so on. Meanwhile I've paid them gross (+ VAT of course) and they've paid no tax, NI, VAT etc.

From the agency's POV all completelt legal and kept overheads down (no Employers NI etc), but made a tricky situation when it came to Employers Liability Insurance. We actually had a situation where one of our Ltd Co contractors had an accident at one of our client's facilities. Who's insurance pays? Not mine, since he was an independent contractor. Not the client's since he was contracted through me and of course not his own Company since he didn't actually have any insurance. All much better now. Everyone's a PAYE employee and all parties know where they stand. Even have to offer pensions and paid holidays now.

No IR35 might upset a few "fly by night" connies, who are just trying to take the p**s out of the rest of us taxpayers, but IMHO it's done a damn good job.

All IMHO and without wishing to cause offence etc etc etc,

 

[jfm]

statement by a peasant about to revolt.....

Agree your sentiments on paying tax then watching Blair's mob waste it. It's only 2 weeks since 31 January so pain still very fresh in my memory. And now I've just bought a new gaff and got stung for massive stamp duty, which I have to pay out of my taxed income grrrrrr, that's a tax which really pisses me off, why have to pay a new car in tax, just to blimmin move?

 

[petem]

Stamp duty.....

I was moaning about this only today. You would have thought that as it's a percentage they'd be happy. But to make it a sliding scale is just taking the whotsit.

 

[tcm]

Re: hmm, tax, IR35

ooh i am wary when people talk of others "taking the piss" out of other taxpayers. Of course, conmen charging vat and not repaying etc is right out of order, illegal etc. so agreed on that bit.

But: Tax is a "game truth" - it not "right and fair" as some seem to think, as though it's something like being polite or not cheating at cricket. There was no option to pay (say) 10% at the general election, nor an option to pay loads more. Once the concept of tax has been invented, the only fair levels are 100% and 0%, as they say.

Don't quite see what's very different bout individual consultants and a compnay containing a whole wall of consultants - after all, as a customer, I don't give a monkeys bout all the other consultants, admen, solicitors, in a company - I want that one, and only that one. If s/he moved jobs, I'd follow them. There are lots of examples, incl many on this bb, where they are outiside the clutches of IR35, but still have sveral charcteristics of the regulations...which seem to stink. The basis seems to have been that a gang of people playing by the lower-tax rules "look like" they should be playing to others, and paying higher tax. They didn't for example, consider dropping the paye tax levels so it made no difference, a super case of tax harminisation. These indivdual types also a bit weedy as a poklitical force, bit right of centre, so won't complain.

Fact is if tom and dick and harry canned their individual companies and started a company called TDH & Partners and carried on as before working at the respective places for months on end and paid profit share around or divvies, that's fine. Duh?

So, either the government is a bit sharp picking on these consultants. Or maybe they only caught the dim ones? Bet petem was nodding up until then...

 

[longjohnsilver]

IR 35, tax, this government

Tony and his cronies + Gordon B are trying to close the obvious tax loopholes but at the same time show complete naievity about overall savings and cost of those savings.

One of their first acts was to remove the tax credits from pension funds and then immediately claim that no one individual would be affected. Then they realise that more retired peeps = more payouts on state pension scheme, so they introduce stakeholder, an idea drawn up on the back of a very small postage stamp. Supposed to attract those that couldn't afford pensions before, fat chance of that!! Another ticking time bomb.

As for NI they announce decreases before their own increases have even taken effect. Fudging or what!

Almost immediately after that they removed the tax relief for retired peeps on health insurance. That really helped with the strain on the NHS! Maybe saved a few million in extra tax whilst increasing cost to NHS of who knows what, but bet it amounts to at least 5x so called savings.

All we seem to have now is burocrats trying to expand their own little empires, inland revenue are demoralised and understaffed and politicians as usual promising the earth and blaming the other lot.

If you want to save or reduce tax there are generally ways and means using the system as it stands, but expect to pay something to keep Tony and Gordon happy, unless of course you are a Labour party donor, own an offshore company and want to buy a foreign steelmaker!

So praps Matt you can set up an offshore company based on the leopard and keep moving it about, just to get us back onto a boating theme!!

 

[tcm]

Re: ahem

erm er

 

[BarryD]

Re: I agree.....

Come on Petem - IMHO you had a good ride playing the system and now that the system has closed the door your complaining and saying your "good life" is in ruins - had to sell the boat etc... As a contractor you've got near enough ZERO operating expenses (unless you've got a really good accountant <G>), high disposable income - for the same or worse skill set that the permies have. Bet you made a packet over YR2000.

And before you sneer sour grapes - I worked as a freelance computer contractor for quite a few years. Had a blast, drove silly cars, got drunk in most of the major capitals of the world and wrote some damm fine systems (or so the clients slurred at my leaving drinks). I joined the ranks of the permies and guess what - no change! Apart from the fact I'm not allowed near sharp objects or coding templates and I've now bought a boat and own by far the fastest biggest silliest car I'm ever likely too <G> It's just called the real world.

Agree with your sentiments on percentage charges for stamp duty - the steps do seem stupid. A penalty for success.

IMHO, FWIW and NWGOI or insluts intended.

Havoc, fire, confusion, and mis-trust, yes my work here is done...

Barry D

 

[petem]

Re: I agree.....

Barry, I wasn't really complaining, more stating facts. Didn't make much dosh out of Y2K in the end. Maybe the Euro will be a little more of a golden goose.

I too became a permie a couple of years ago, partly due to IR35, partly due to a big set of golden handcuffs and party because contract work looked like it was drying up.

Anyway, more importantly, what sort of motor you got?

 

[paulineb]

Barry\'s car

is a Lada/Skoda cut and shut twin carb coupe convertible with nodding dog, dice and an electronic sign in the rear window which says BRAKE!!!!! when he brakes. You can't miss it, it's bright purple with with orange tinted windows and a baby seat, and a sign hanging in the window saying 'Baby on Board'

Pxx

 

[BarryD]

Re: Barry\'s car

Most exact Pauline - are you stalking me again? That's my station car you silly girl, although the "brake" sign in the window has stopped working since some vandal slashed the roof.

The silly stupid car is a Cadillac Seville STS, right hand drive with loads of gadgets and flashing lights. The engine is a 4.6l NorthStar V8 which has 100,000 mile service intervals and can apparently run without coolant for 50 miles or something like that. The primary benefit of owning such a large car is that in the event of a collision I can avoid it by running around the footwell. It's got a fuel computer on board and if the numbers can be believed is actually more economical than MVII by a considerable degree. Given that this is the 3rd v8 in household I now receive monthly "Thank you" cards from the major petroleum companies.

Havoc, fire, confusion, and mis-trust, yes my work here is done...

Barry D

 

[paulineb]

Re: Barry\'s car

It's a company car then ?

Pxx

 

[BarryD]

Re: Barry\'s car

Yer right <G> actually I'm granted a car allowance and can buy what I like - seeing as I'm in central London and never drive in. I laugh at the 0.29p per mile allowance. And er "No" the car allowance doesn't really pay for a Caddy. but don't tell H.

Havoc, fire, confusion, and mis-trust, yes my work here is done...

Barry D