TAMD61A- Spares- There are alternatives to VP!

stuartw

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Having had numerous small leaks in the raw water cooling circuit, I decided to strip the whole thing down, between the raw water pump and the gearbox oil cooler. Apart from the inevitable leaking "O" rings on each heat exchanger end cap pipes, I was somewhat amazed at the amount of calcification. There were webs of deposits in the end caps which had built up over the years, to such an extent that the area for the water to go down and back up each matrix, was reduced by over 60%. The matrix pipes themselves were of course somewhat choked. Even where the "O" rings were seated, there was calcification under them where they were seated on the end caps, evidence of poor sealing and water pushing underneath them, leaving the deposits, which exacerbated the situation.
Having examined the "O" rings, I decided to replace the lot, ie qty 8 between the two engines. On shopping around, I found that all the dealers where selling these at around £4 each! So it made a bill for those alone around £35 inc PP. Having been in engineering for more years than I care to remember, I decided to find alternatives, as the VP ones looked nothing special.
I have found a 40mm ID x 7mm wall, in Nitrile @ 70A Shore hardness which are more resilient than the original and only cost £0.65 each - a big difference. These were obtained from Rhondama. I bought 10 which came to £8.40 inc PP.

I then decided to de-scale the whole system from the pump to the exhaust including the gear-box oil cooler, using sulphamic acid, dissolved in very hot water. Each heat exchanger was filled up with the solution, pouring it in very slowly because of the frothing due to the CO2 given off. This was left for about 30 mins. The oil cooler was left in position and filled up via the pipe leading to the charge air cooling heat exchanger. The take off pipe to the sternglands was left on initially to de-scale the sterngland. It was subsequently blocked off for a second application. The endcaps were done separately in a bucket. The sulphamic acid was bought for £10 (2.5kg) from Kamco - St. Albans. It contains a pink indicator which is useful in gauging when the solution is spent.

On re-assembly, a small amount of Dow Corning Marine silicone sealant was used to bed the "o" rings into the endcaps, purely as a belt & braces exercise.

As there was some rust & flaking paint on the engines I decided to tart them up, so enquired from a VP distributor what the VP green paint cost.
£28.62/ltr brushing & £20.80 aerosol.. WOW!
So I took myself off to a local industrial paint supplier, armed with a piece of the engine as a colour match, and bought 1 ltr of "Corrofast" fast drying/brushable synthetic enamel to a Renault 972 colour - Vert Coriander. There is a small colour difference, but a blind man would be glad to see it. Cost £16.10/ltr

Below is a list of spares etc that I have bought, together with the VP prices

Engine oil Volvo Truck oil- 2x20ltr = £65 - VP 2 x 20ltr = £163

Oil Filter Volvo Truck filter x2 (large) = £22 - VP x 2 large =£23

Air Filters Fram CA4365 x 4 =£26 - VP x 4 =£80

"O" rings 40 x 7mm Nitrile =£7
- VP x 8 =£37

Paint CorroFast x 1ltr =£16 - VP x1ltr =£28
___________________________________________________

Totals alternatives =£136 VP =£331

Saving = £195

The above only represents some fairly minor items, and of course does not mean that any engine bit can be sourced. Having said that it means I can spend that £195 on something else.

Purists may say that you don't get the Volvo quality by using alternatives - Huh- what quality. I prefer to trust my own engineering knowledge, rather than some marketing hype. Anyway it works for me.


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[2574]

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Stuart,

How old are your engines? I'm interested in how long it takes to gather the amount of calcification that you have found. I've just had both my engines done - I'm no engineer! - and out for a sea trial last weekend I was astonished at how much cooler the engines were running.

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stuartw

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The engines are of 1987 vintage, but I cannot say if the've never been stripped down to that level since then. I do know they definitely have not been stripped down for 8 years, ie the 3 years I have had them and the 5 years the previous owner had them. So it is between 8 & 16yrs.
As regards the web of calcification in the heat exchanger caps, I did notice that there were several smaller lines of scale, which indicated that there were various levels of water at one time or another. I would imagine that where the web was greatest is where the water sits whilst the engine is not running but still hot, so it grows like a stalactite. As you pointed out, the engines will run cooler as the water has a more intimate contact with the hot surfaces.
By the way, can I ask how much did your de-scaling cost- if it's not too painfull.

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[2574]

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£60 per heat exchanger, two engines, four heat exchangers. We have had both engines out all winter though so v. little labour cost in extracting the units for treatment. So, £240 all in, but it feels right having the engines running so much cooler. Rob

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oldgit

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thanks for the tip on the paint colour/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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byron

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<font color=blue>Can you pop around and do mine now please

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longjohnsilver

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Another alternative is to rod the tubes thru with a welding rod or something similar, always rod against the direction of flow, doesn't take too long and can be done with the stacks in situ.

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stuartw

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I actually had to do that to the gearbox oil cooler, as an emergency in Guernsey last year. It was so blocked that it burst the last "O" ring before it. Luckily I had an electric drill on board, and got some brazing rod, flattened the end and bored out most of the tubes It took me about an hour though. To do the other heat exchangers is of course a much bigger strip down job. Certainly sulphamic acid is much easier, and gets rid of it all.

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stuartw

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The full spec No. for the paint colour is as follows:-

Car make- Renault 972

Car Code - P6 1588 Verdi

Car Colour - Vert Coriander

Hope that helps


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tr7v8

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Where is the place you got the O Rings from?
Yours sound similar to mine except some &^*&^* had used probably a whole tbe of builders mastic to seal up the raw water leaks rather than do it properly, also someone had rounded off just abut every nut and bolt. Radiator specialist couldn't believe how much cack came out of the heat exchangers.
1 x new impeller, 2 x thermostats, 2 sets of water pipe seals, 1 x raw water tower, 2 x Raw water caps and 2 o rings; thermostat housing to header tank was £ 190 inc VAT & P & P frm Keyparts, god knows what Volvo would have wanted....
The fresh water pumps, I've modded the car ones to fit, Car ones £ 27 VAT each, Volvo £ 240ish!!!!! One of mine leaked the other the bearing was knacked.
Cam belts were £ 11, Keypart £ 20, tensioner £ 17.50 , Keypart £ 65!!!

Final thing is post the info on the Volpen website so other know.

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stuartw

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Yes it would. I even considered that. However, because I had to strip it down anyway because of the "O" rings, I had to do it piecemeal. You would have supply the exhaust with an alternative water supply, while the raw water pump re-circulated the sulphamic acid from some container.
In fact Kamco who supplied the sulphamic acid, do have an inline de-scaling system for industrial boilers & heatXchangers. I tried to interest them in doing mine, but I knew I had to strip it down anyway. The Kamco system has it's own pump, which re-circulates the acid at high rate, thus enabling large amounts of scale to be dissolved v. quickly.
They were quite interested in the offering this as a service, but I am not sure the demand would be high enough. And because all engine boat systems are different, it would be difficult.
food for thought though.

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stuartw

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Jim,
I have'nt got the full address with me, it's on the boat, but Rhondama are in Loughborough, tel. 01509-218149 or e-mail - enquiries@rhondama.co.uk.
The "O" rings are 40mm ID with a 7.0mm dia section, Nitrile rubber 70 Shore A. (this makes the OD 54mm dia.)

I like your tip about the freshwater pumps etc, have'nt had any other problems, but it's nice to know these things in advance.
I have'nt used or even looked at the Volpen site, perhaps I better.
Rgds
Stuart




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G

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Has anybody ever found that the Anodes gets sucked into the matrix tubes in bits (another reason for checking their condition regularily) Anybody out there got any suggestions where I can get a replacement Matrix for my 60b intercooler not Serks please!

Thanking you in anticipation
Rob

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Moose

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I have just done the serviceing on our two TAMD 63P's which involved changing all the 'O-rings'
I tried to do the same as you and find cheaper ones BUT after paying a visit to "O-Rings ltd." I was informed that the VP ones are made of Vitrol (sp?) and should not be replaced with anything else cos' other rubbers will rot in the salt water. So I bought a load of Vitrol (sp?) 'O-rings' from this place for a minimum charge of £10 which was still cheaper than VP. If I was you I would make sure that the ones you have are definitlely okay.


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stuartw

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The material you are refering to is VITON, a DuPont fluroelastomer product. In this application, ie in permanent contact with seawater and relatively low temperature range Viton has no advantage over nitrile. Where Viton is essential, is in contact with fuels or agressive chemicals and /or elevated temps. From my own experience and even more recent discussions with "O" ring manufacturers, Nitrile is more than adequate.
However, this does not get round the fundament problem of the basic mechanical design of that seal in the housing. Because there is no axial support, the seal rolls back, away from the end cap when the pipe it sits on, is pushed home.The radial compression is minimal, which allows water to be easily forced passed. That is why I decided to ensure a better seal by using the silicone sealant as well.
Anyway, thanks for your concern.

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