TAMD27P and CAT 3208

[ash12]

Hi
Just looking for views on the volvo TAMD27P and the CAT 3208. Also what horsepower are the volvos? What is the difference with the CAT TA v8 and the 3208s.
Any advice would be appreciated thanks.

 

[volvopaul]

Firstly the volvo is a 72 a also was a version of p rating and later edc version, 430hp but give them a very wide berth!

CAT 3208 is a v8 engine in 210 hp naturally aspirated. Versions included a turbo only version with no intercooler at 280hp, then 375 hp with intercooler 425, 435 and last pleasure rated version at 435 called the silver anniversary edition, ive worked on nearly all of the models, there fairly cheap to service using aftermarket parts.

 

[ash12]

Thanks for that. So why give them a very wide berth? So are they just a 72 with more electronics?

 

[ash12]

Paul??

 

[Latestarter1]

Firstly the volvo is a 72 a also was a version of p rating and later edc version, 430hp but give them a very wide berth!

CAT 3208 is a v8 engine in 210 hp naturally aspirated. Versions included a turbo only version with no intercooler at 280hp, then 375 hp with intercooler 425, 435 and last pleasure rated version at 435 called the silver anniversary edition, ive worked on nearly all of the models, there fairly cheap to service using aftermarket parts.

3208 pretty much owned the 375 to 425 power node in US until people wanted less smokey motors. 425 was better motor than 435 as compression ratio was 16.5:1 not 15.5:1 and did not smoke the house down.

If you are looking at a Ferretti be careful, they tended to over prop the 3208 425's and had a few go bang it was certainly NOT the fault of the engine.

Remember CAT use honest John SAE Horsepower, none of your skinny metric stuff, and although spec is plus minus 5% they had a practice of only signing off nominal plus 5% on 40 Degree test fuel so a 435 was never less than 445 on the dyno.

 

[ash12]

Interesting thanks. Always thought the CAT was a good engine. Just need to know about the Volvo. Ash

 

[volvopaul]

3208 pretty much owned the 375 to 425 power node in US until people wanted less smokey motors. 425 was better motor than 435 as compression ratio was 16.5:1 not 15.5:1 and did not smoke the house down.

If you are looking at a Ferretti be careful, they tended to over prop the 3208 425's and had a few go bang it was certainly NOT the fault of the engine.

Remember CAT use honest John SAE Horsepower, none of your skinny metric stuff, and although spec is plus minus 5% they had a practice of only signing off nominal plus 5% on 40 Degree test fuel so a 435 was never less than 445 on the dyno.

Cat will also never pair engines to suppliers that are more than 1% different in hp output.

Nice to read the ratings are true unlike Yanmars quoted figures in sales lit.

 

[ash12]

So why is the volvo to be avoided?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

3208 pretty much owned the 375 to 425 power node in US until people wanted less smokey motors. 425 was better motor than 435 as compression ratio was 16.5:1 not 15.5:1 and did not smoke the house down.

If you are looking at a Ferretti be careful, they tended to over prop the 3208 425's and had a few go bang it was certainly NOT the fault of the engine.

Remember CAT use honest John SAE Horsepower, none of your skinny metric stuff, and although spec is plus minus 5% they had a practice of only signing off nominal plus 5% on 40 Degree test fuel so a 435 was never less than 445 on the dyno.

Mmm. My last boat was a Ferretti 46 with Cat 3208TA engines and they certainly weren't overpropped. The engines hit a few rpm over the rated max with a clean bottom although, of course, the max rpm fell significantly once aggressive Med fouling had got a hold on the sterngear. What I would say is that the engines were marginally underpowered for the boat as the max I ever saw was 27kts. Ferretti also fitted these engines in the older 145/150 models which were the best part of 50ft long and built like the proverbial outhouse so I can imagine the 3208's struggled to push these along. In fact I nearly bought a 145 a few years ago but pulled out after an oil analysis revealed unexplained contaminants in the oil of both engines.
I've had the 3208TAs in 2 other boats as well. In all 3 boats the engines performed faultlessly save for an alternator failure on one (which I understand was a weak spot). I wouldn't say that the 3208s are smoky on start up (unlike some early Volvo diesels) but they certainly left an exhaust residue on the transom of all 3 boats I owned. I like the 3208s. Uncomplicated V8s that just seem to go without any fuss

 

[volvopaul]

So why is the volvo to be avoided?

Do some google searches on the tamd72a, very weak on cooling, hence piston probs, horrendous smoke on start up.

Basic engine was the71 series block, they bolted on a massive wastegated turbo, different pistons, 5 port injectors and uprated pump which gave it another 50hp over the 71b which in my opinion was afantastic understressed lump at 380hp, net result of the 72a was unreliability, ive re engined broom 44s that had these lumps in for th 75p.

They left the coolers the same s the 71b which meant it was way undercooled.

Do you need convincing anymore????? what boat are you looking at with these units in, I may be able to shed a little light on the subject.

 

[Latestarter1]

Mmm. My last boat was a Ferretti 46 with Cat 3208TA engines and they certainly weren't overpropped. The engines hit a few rpm over the rated max with a clean bottom although, of course, the max rpm fell significantly once aggressive Med fouling had got a hold on the sterngear. What I would say is that the engines were marginally underpowered for the boat as the max I ever saw was 27kts. Ferretti also fitted these engines in the older 145/150 models which were the best part of 50ft long and built like the proverbial outhouse so I can imagine the 3208's struggled to push these along. In fact I nearly bought a 145 a few years ago but pulled out after an oil analysis revealed unexplained contaminants in the oil of both engines.
I've had the 3208TAs in 2 other boats as well. In all 3 boats the engines performed faultlessly save for an alternator failure on one (which I understand was a weak spot). I wouldn't say that the 3208s are smoky on start up (unlike some early Volvo diesels) but they certainly left an exhaust residue on the transom of all 3 boats I owned. I like the 3208s. Uncomplicated V8s that just seem to go without any fuss

It was Ferretti 145,s that were in trouble mainly in Germany.

Yes 145 is a lump of a boat, 20 tonnes springs to mind, not a nice match.

However Feretti propped them right on the limit, on the basis that if they could just squeak 2,800 rpm on trials in the Med, Northern European ambients would be fine. Data I had was 19 knot cruise, 23 knota @ 2,800 WOT. CAT distributor signed the installation off. May have JUST worked.....Exept.

No reputable engine manufacturer signs off an installation of mechanical motors unless they make WOT, plus governor droop of say 50/100 rpm with 50% tanks and clean bottom.

But due to the boats capacity for water toys other junk, etc often led to almost two tonnes of extra weight. Even in Northern European ambients would lead to engines being able to make barely 2,600 WOT with some fouling.

Add a 'The nut behind the wheel' syndrome.

Add the German CAT distributor who is not noted for being recreational engine user friendly.

Led to internal memo that 3208’s in these boats be boroscoped in the event of an engine survey being required.

At least one vessel was re-powered with 635's which made a perfect match.

 

[ash12]

what boat are you looking at with these units in, I may be able to shed a little light on the subject.

Trader. It was rengined in 1997 with the volvos

 

[volvopaul]

Trader. It was rengined in 1997 with the volvos

Trader what? in a 41 would be a good power to weight ratio, but bigger its going to be very heavy on fuel for the speed attained.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It was Ferretti 145,s that were in trouble mainly in Germany.

Yes 145 is a lump of a boat, 20 tonnes springs to mind, not a nice match.

However Feretti propped them right on the limit, on the basis that if they could just squeak 2,800 rpm on trials in the Med, Northern European ambients would be fine. Data I had was 19 knot cruise, 23 knota @ 2,800 WOT. CAT distributor signed the installation off. May have JUST worked.....Exept.

No reputable engine manufacturer signs off an installation of mechanical motors unless they make WOT, plus governor droop of say 50/100 rpm with 50% tanks and clean bottom.

But due to the boats capacity for water toys other junk, etc often led to almost two tonnes of extra weight. Even in Northern European ambients would lead to engines being able to make barely 2,600 WOT with some fouling.

Add a 'The nut behind the wheel' syndrome.

Add the German CAT distributor who is not noted for being recreational engine user friendly.

Led to internal memo that 3208’s in these boats be boroscoped in the event of an engine survey being required.

At least one vessel was re-powered with 635's which made a perfect match.

Thats interesting. I dont think Ferretti built very many 145s and the one we looked at buying was German flagged although based in Cote D'Azur. Just possibly the same boat. The oil analysis produced some unexplained contaminants; long time ago but I think molybedenum was one element that shouldn't be in the oil according to my engineer. There was also unburnt fuel residue in the exhaust outflow which didn't bode well. I dropped my offer by the cost of a full engine rebuild but the seller wasn't interested so I walked away.
Yup Ferrettis are cruising boats and they're heavy already before they get loaded with fuel, water, cruising gear + dinghy and PWC which they're capable of carrying. I think Ferretti learnt somewhere around 2000 that their boats needed bigger engines. Certainly my Ferretti 53 is well matched to the Cat 3196s fitted which drive it to 32kts v easily

 

[ash12]

Trader 50. They always had small engines especially the early ones. Im not looking for the speed though and the 1997 owner told us that it used a lot of fuel if you pushed it which I would expect for a 26ton boat.

 

[volvopaul]

Although not the best engines for the boat, it would have been far better with a pair of the cat 3208s in, but as long as they are in good order, a sea trial and inspection would be advised prior to purchase, I can do that for you,presuming its uk based.

 

[ash12]

Thats what I though. If I get near buying it then I might just contact you. Thanks paul.