TAMD22 Turbo None Start

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garyl1812

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I wonder if anyone can shed some light. I have a TAMD 22 turbo aspirated engine. The engine starting blowing black smoke and lost power. I tried starting the engine the following day and it will just about run alongside the starter but not on its own.
I have changed the cambelt, idler and tensioner. Timing is spot on and everything lines up. Replaced Turbo and exhaust elbow.
But still it will not run on its own.
I have pulled the injectors out and they carboned up but don`t think it should prevent the engine from running.
 
Did this fault occur before or after new cambelt?
Have you checked the stop solenoid?
Is fuel getting to the inj pump?
Is fuel coming out of the inj pump?
Any of the trips er tripped?
Fuse on side of engine okay?
Fuel bug?
Removed and checked filters?
 
The fault occurred before the new timing belt. Fuel is getting as far as the top of the injector. Fuel is 3 weeks old and has always had fuel bug additive in it. Not checked on the electrical side yet.
 
garyl1812 said:
The fault occurred before the new timing belt. Fuel is getting as far as the top of the injector. Fuel is 3 weeks old and has always had fuel bug additive in it. Not checked on the electrical side yet.
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Is it s good squirt coming out of the union at the injector or a dribble? easy to assume there is fuel there when in fact there is not.

I think I would take a sample of the fuel preferably from the fuel filter itself, maybe even cut the filter open for a proper look see.
 
Check the aftercooler for a hole and/or corrosion. The black smoke is unburnt fuel, so there is a good chance that the pressurised air from the turbo is escaping before it gets to the engine.

This doesn't explain why it won't start and tick-over though. Have you checked the compressions? It could be that you've lost compression due to either a blown head gasket, cracked head, broken piston ring, holed piston, etc.

I had one of these engines in my boat. Was a right PITA.
 
There is a good amount of fuel coming out of the union at the top of the injector. I have emptied the fuel filter out and filled it with fresh fuel and put the fuel intake into a can of fresh diesel. Still the same but its now grey smoke while turning it over on the key. if I push the accelerator to the full position it will run on for a second or two after I ley go of the key. Are there any electrics that would prevent it from starting? Even with a blown head gasket I would expect it to start. It is very odd and have not come across a problem like this.
 
Where is the boat?

There are no electrics that will prevent it from starting. The glow plug relay is the only thing that could cause starting problems, but not in the current temperatures.
 
The boat is in Maryport Cumbria.
I have not come across anything like this before. The engine has been looked after well by the previous owner. Its the fact that it seems to run while the starter motor is turning but just does not catch.
 
Might be worth popping the stop solenoid out for a look? in car it is 12 volt live to keep it open, in boats it is open all the time and 12 volts switches the fuel off.
Watch out awhen removing as there is a light spring and plunger that comes with it, pita access wise on cars, not had a boat one out yet.
Car type 10 quid, boat type 80 quid!
Bench test it with a battery, you also want to check the plunger and the hole it came out of for any evidence of swarf etc.

Have you checked the cambelt is still tight? just pop off the little plastic access panel on top of the main plastic housing.
 
garyl1812 said:
There is a good amount of fuel coming out of the union at the top of the injector. I have emptied the fuel filter out and filled it with fresh fuel and put the fuel intake into a can of fresh diesel. Still the same but its now grey smoke while turning it over on the key. if I push the accelerator to the full position it will run on for a second or two after I ley go of the key. Are there any electrics that would prevent it from starting? Even with a blown head gasket I would expect it to start. It is very odd and have not come across a problem like this.
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It sounds awfully to me like you have a lack of compression. These engines are pretty low compression to start with (being a re-work of a petrol engine), so it doesn't take much of a drop to get to the point where there isn't enough to ignite the fuel. The grey smoke points to that too.

If I were you, I'd get a compression testing kit (you can get one that fits into the glow-plug hole, so you don't have to remove the injectors).

I actually have one in the garage that I don't use now, which I can sell you if you wish.
 
Gents
Thank you for all your help. I have got a compression kit back at home which I am going to have to bite the bullet and do a 5 hour round trip to fetch up to the boat. Cambelt is still in place and I have rechecked all locking pins and all still good. I will pull the solenoid out which of course is in a place where there is not much wiggle room, but then who does not like a challenge.
 
Bobc said:
It won't be the stop solenoid if you are getting fuel at the injectors and grey smoke, as the solenoid stops the fuel from leaving the injector pump.
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That is true, but the solenoid plunger could have swarf on the end of it which is a good sign of impending pump failure.
 
Bobc said:
It sounds awfully to me like you have a lack of compression. These engines are pretty low compression to start with (being a re-work of a petrol engine), so it doesn't take much of a drop to get to the point where there isn't enough to ignite the fuel. The grey smoke points to that too.

If I were you, I'd get a compression testing kit (you can get one that fits into the glow-plug hole, so you don't have to remove the injectors).

I actually have one in the garage that I don't use now, which I can sell you if you wish.
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That does not sound correct to me, just checked and comp ratio is 17.5 to 1, I thought petrols were much nearer 8 ish to 1?
 
lynallbel said:
That does not sound correct to me, just checked and comp ratio is 17.5 to 1, I thought petrols were much nearer 8 ish to 1?
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I didn't say it was the same as the petrol engine. What I said was that it was a low-compression engine for a diesel, due to the fact that it was derived from a petrol engine. If you compare the c/r with something like the VP D2-75, which is 23.2:1, you'll understand what I mean.
 
Bobc said:
I didn't say it was the same as the petrol engine. What I said was that it was a low-compression engine for a diesel, due to the fact that it was derived from a petrol engine. If you compare the c/r with something like the VP D2-75, which is 23.2:1, you'll understand what I mean.
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Tbh I always assume most light duty diesels are just uner 20 to 1 comp ratio.

Just checked every car I currently own, highest 19 to 1, rest 18/18.5 to 1
All the trucks I work on range from 16 to 1, up to 18.5 to 1.

Kind of tells me that the vp d2 is bit of an odd ball and not a good comparison to make against a 4 cylinder car engine.
 
lynallbel said:
Tbh I always assume most light duty diesels are just uner 20 to 1 comp ratio.

Just checked every car I currently own, highest 19 to 1, rest 18/18.5 to 1
All the trucks I work on range from 16 to 1, up to 18.5 to 1.

Kind of tells me that the vp d2 is bit of an odd ball and not a good comparison to make against a 4 cylinder car engine.
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Not an odd ball at all. Most boat engines are based on industrial units (generators, diggers, tractors) and are designed to run for thousands of hours at constant revs, and are not designed to rev much above 3,000rpm.

The Perkins Prima is the odd ball, as it's a car engine which has been marinised.
 
Bobc said:
Not an odd ball at all. Most boat engines are based on industrial units (generators, diggers, tractors) and are designed to run for thousands of hours at constant revs, and are not designed to rev much above 3,000rpm.

The Perkins Prima is the odd ball, as it's a car engine which has been marinised.
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So do you really believe all industrial engines run at over 20 to 1 compression ratio?

Bet you a pint very few of the 4 cyl industrial/generator/tracto/digger engines you mention run over 20 to 1 compression ratio?
 
lynallbel said:
So do you really believe all industrial engines run at over 20 to 1 compression ratio?

Bet you a pint very few of the 4 cyl industrial/generator/tracto/digger engines you mention run over 20 to 1 compression ratio?
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My original point being that the Prima is only 17:1 to start with. It is compression which creates ignition, so the lower the compression, the worse the ignition. If your compression drops just 20% from 17:1, you're down to 14:1, and diesel will struggle to ignite at that compression.
 
Bobc said:
My original point being that the Prima is only 17:1 to start with. It is compression which creates ignition, so the lower the compression, the worse the ignition. If your compression drops just 20% from 17:1, you're down to 14:1, and diesel will struggle to ignite at that compression.
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I doubt very much lack of compression is the ops issue.
 
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