Tacking issues on Halmatic 880

lynnx22

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Hi All,
A question for you all.
I have a Halmatic 880 from the 70,s (stop sniggering you at the back!)
Took me a long time to restore to working condition but this year I have been on the water quite a bit - in the Bristol Channel.
In normal conditions (F3-5) she motors and sails around the same speed ie 5/6 knots and is very placid, as you can imagine.
However, 50% of the time when I tack she turns into the tack, continues spinning, gybes and then continues off on the original tack.!
If it was 100% of the time I.d blame the boat - but it isn,t, so I blame me - but I have no idea what I,m doing wrong lol
I have tried varying rudder, not setting the fore sail too early, varying speed etc
Any ideas anyone?
Cheers
 

KevinV

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Sounds to me like you're just tacking a bit too quickly, with a lot of rudder - I used to do the same. You end up trying to do everything at once, and failing.
Less rudder is smoother, gives more time and maintains boat speed better.
 

B27

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Try initiating the tack by sheeting the main in hard, which should cause the boat to luff towards the wind.
Then you should need less rudder to tack.

Possibly you are allowing the boat to bear off too far, in order to blow the genoa across the bow?
If you are short handed, rolling the genoa a little can help tacking.

Possibly your boat is rigged with insufficient weather helm, when sailing in a straight line, you should need to use a little bit of tiller to stop the boat heading up.
 

Poignard

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Perhaps you are allowing the boat to slow down before the tack to the point where the rudder becomes ineffectve and the headsail takes charge.

I think you may be 'pinching her' ie sailing to close to the wind, try bearing away a little before you tack to build up sufficient speed to get her round.
 
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jwilson

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The OP is not saying he can't tack (not uncommon in a few poorly designed early bilge/triple/keelers) but CAN tack but then gybes and ends up back on the original tack.

A Halmatic 8.80 is not that bad a sailing boat. The design was by John Sharp who was very competent. The only thing I can think of is that the OP is backing the headsail to help get her round, and then not releasing it quickly enough or the sheet is getting caught somewhere.

Free off very slightly before the tack to make sure you have good speed, a degree or five or ten, wheel over steadily to tack, but NOT all the way, and a few seconds after the bow is though the wind wheel back half-way to around ahead and sheet the jib in on the other side. Then concentrate more on the course than whether the jib is tight enough. You can tweak that later.

I've sailed a fair few boats that handled truly horribly, but I can't believe a Halmatic 8.80 is one of them. Not much fun in light airs, but plenty of diesel power and a nice fixed windscreen.

Thinking aloud (actually typing) make sure the bottom is not extremely foul - this can cause really poor handling, though not tacking would be one likely result which is not the case here.
 

Stemar

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My top tip for a boat that tacks without hesitation is to hold the genny on the old tack until it backwinds and pulls the bow through the wind, then hold the bow so the genny's dead into wind while the crew sheet in on the new tack, which only takes seconds, as there's no force on the sail, before bearing off onto the new course. Much quicker, and your crew will thank you too.
 

Biggles Wader

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If I understand correctly your boat tacks through the wind easily but then continues to turn in the same direction (?230 degrees) until you are facing downwind and she gybes. Then you carry on turning until you have done a full 360 and end up back as you started out. If so you do not need to back the headsail to assist tacking, rather you need to get control of the boat as soon as you are on the new tack by use of the helm and by adjusting the sails to get steering way on the boat. Perhaps you are using too much helm to tack and then leaving that helm on far too long?
 

Pye_End

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Unusual to end up doing a 360 in this manner. Perhaps a terminology issue in the OP? A reluctant tack would be a more expected question. A bit more detailed clarification would be useful.
 

oldbloke

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The rudder must be not working, so either stalling by over steering or losing steerage by stopping. Then the genoa is overpowering the main , and round it goes. Anyone who has tried rudderless sailing without lifting the centreboard will be familiar with the process.
Solution must be , maintain steering by not oversteering and keeping way on and depowering the genoa ,by not over sheeting and/or partially furling, so as the keep the centre of effort in the right place.
If doing all that is too difficult singlehanding the either gybe round or turn the engine on
 

lynnx22

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Good oh !
A lot to consider there.
A few details for your info lol .....

She has a wheel, I am used to a tiller and find it hard to visualise what the rudder is doing, therefore it is entirely possible I,m over steering and/or holding it too long.

I always sail single handed so may well be doing too much all at once and too fast, especially as she is new to me AND bigger than I,m used to.

The foresail is probably a bit too big all "out" but she is fitted with a "structural furling forestay" IE like a Martin Wykeham and, again, I have not yet bonded with it. Could well be overpowering the main. The small main was actually a design brief for ease of handling apparently.

The idea of "pinching" is a possible. I will have to see (and remember) if the spin happens only when close hauled and try bearing off before tacking, although that seems counter intuitive !

So, lots to think about ... I,m sure it's me, not the boat.!
 

William_H

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As said loss of speed and hence rudder power is the reason she rotates right around to a gybe. (stopped in the water). So minimum amount of rudder to get it turning towards the gybe then using the backed jib get the bow through the tack then centre the rudder ASAP. Keep the hull speed up. (dirty bottom will slow it down while dirty rudder will exacerbate the problems) However my guess is that the sail is area is too much and smaller jib perhaps reefing the main will help. Tacking while over powered is always fraught. ol'will
 

dunedin

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She has a wheel, I am used to a tiller and find it hard to visualise what the rudder is doing, therefore it is entirely possible I,m over steering and/or holding it too long.
….
Do you have a mark on the wheel showing at the top when central?
Lots of examples of neat ropework which can be tied on the wheel - but red electric tape does for us when the grand children come on board.
Definitely sounds like over steering, and failing to centralise the wheel soon enough after a tack. The red tape might help.
 

lynnx22

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Red tape will do for when I,M aboard, let alone the gkids lol.
I have a straight ahead mark but, as the wheel is exactly 2 turns lock to lock, its visually hard to tell p/s from straight ahead.!
I intend to add some markers for degrees of turn and see how that works.

I take away from this;

Bear away slightly before the tack.
Pull in mainsheet in to luff up (if appropriate to conditions)
Maintain speed,
Turn gently and not too sharp.
Straighten up wheel as I go through the wind and let foresail fly.
Make sure she is steering before setting sail again.
Don,t rush!

She is out of the water now until next year but I,m writing this down .......

Thanx all.
 

Babylon

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Effecting a smooth and efficient tack is an art that takes some practice, especially if single-handed.

My boat is quite different to your's. It is cutter rigged, so there's the stays'l to tack as well, but my main problem is that the yankee sheets can easily snag on the inner forestay when going through the wind. If this happens then the heads'l becomes effectively backed, and if this doesn't clear fast enough the boat slows and stops, the rudder becomes entirely ineffective, and the head then falls away way too far! Being heavy and especially if there's a bit of a chop (or wake from a mobo or similar) it takes an eternity to get her moving again with all three sails temporarily trimmed for a broad then a beam reach, then eventually sheeted in for the closer angle I wanted in the first place! So my challenge is to control the rate at which we go through the wind - fast enough to be effective, but slow enough to clear any snag befre the head falls off too far!

Although your boat is wheel-steered as opposed to my tiller, the principle for avoiding all this is the same:
  • time the tack to coincide with gusts rather than lulls, if you can;
  • bear away very slightly to pick up a bit of extra speed, just for a few secs;
  • then gradually 'curve' her towards the wind, using just a little bit of rudder at first, then just a little bit more for a clear and controlled turn without losing speed, but nothing excessive - you need to find just the right rate of turn, with minimal braking of boat speed, else things will happen too fast (a crash-tack!) or too slowly (you'll fail to go through!), in both cases losing boat speed and control altogether;
  • hold that slight/moderate rudder as she goes through the wind, or even less again to slow the turn at the critical moment, then ease off the rudder altogether as she falls away on the opposite, hopefully close-hauled, tack, with a little bit of opposite-rudder to trim etc;
  • if I'm smart enough (with no snagging of the sheets on the inner forestay!) then I can often sheet in completely by hand only (no winch-handle) before the heads'l fills on the new tack;
When your boat is back in the water with a clean bottom next Spring, go out and just practice tacking to and fro - you'll soon find your boat's sweet-spot.
 

Babylon

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It also looks like your rudder might not be particularly effective - more suited in size and shape to an old-school displacement motorboat (which is what your Halmatic partly is). So keeping your speed up, and smooth steering and timing will make the difference.

Also, is your heads'l of moderate size and cut with a slightly high foot as per the 1970s illustration below, or is it a much larger overlapping genoa with a deck-sweeping foot? If the latter that might explain why you've been getting overwhelmed when tacking - the rudder and the main can't counter the major force exerted forward of the mast.
 

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lynnx22

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The foresail is not massive, but not original either.
I would agree that she is mostly motor sailer tho lol. Always a compromise eh ?
That's a pic that Ive not seen before too, thanks !
 

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