Tacking in narrow channels and congested waters.

I've tacked up the Orwell once - don't remember it being that narrow or that congested - but it was March . . .

I will always sail if I can and have never got in anyone's way . . . putting the engine on is a last resort, especially with the engine in our boat!

I would in these circumstances expect power driven vessels to alter course if it was safe to do so, but would be quite prepared to tack early or bear away rather than cause major inconvenience. However, if a potential collision situation arises it is vital that the stand-on vessel is clearly identified, and in most situations involving a vessel under sail and a (leisure) power driven vessel the sailing vessel will be the stand-on vessel. Perhaps one of you ColRegs experts could point out exactly when this is NOT the case.

I think saying that yachts should not tack in rivers or other channels as a blanket statement is a little over the top. My reading of threads like this just convinces me that having a sailing vessel on the Solent or another crowded area (such as the Orwell) would be purgatory rather than pleasure.

- Nick



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Re: I do it...

In some circumstances a boat under power must keep out of the way of the sailing boat just because it is sailing. Sorry you don't like it but that is the way it is.

I sailed up the Medina to Newport yesterday because I have a sailing boat, it was a nice evening and I was in no hurry. If I wanted a motor boat, I would get one. However, I did motor through the moorings at Cowes until just above the chain ferry but that was purely my choice.

When I am sailing I don't think it unreasonable for a motor boat to judge my course and go round me, any more than them going round me when I am under power because I am slower.

But I do think it inconsiderate for someone to short tack in very confined waters if it inconveniences a large number of other water users just for the hell of it.

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Where is the Orwell so narrow you can't tack up it? I mean, maybe after the bridge maybe, but in general there's loads of room to sail.

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Re: I do it...

hmmmm....and in what specific circumstances must a vessel under motor keep out of the way of a sailing vessel 'just because it is sailing'....

bearing in mind of course that we are discussing a 'narrow fairway'

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Re: I do it...

Surely if it can, because that is its responsibility. Being in a "narrow fairway" doesn't suddenly alleviate the regs in question, because a narrow fairway, is one in which either vessel is constrained in its ability to maneouver by it.

If the channel is wide enough for the sailing yacht to be tacking up in the first place, then any power driven vessel of similar or smaller size is most definitley NOT in a "narrow fairway"!

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Re: I do it...

"If the channel is wide enough for the sailing yacht to be tacking up in the first place, then any power driven vessel of similar or smaller size is most definitley NOT in a "narrow fairway"! "

You just hit the nail on the head. Some Narrow Fairways aren't wide enough for sailing yacht to be tacking up it in the first place, but it doesn't stop them from trying....... The reason for this thread I presume?


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>
 
Re: I do it...

I would suggest you ask the owner of the open sailing boat that was very nearly capsized by a RIB in the Beaulieu River last weekend. I think he misread the sign as saying 5knt min speed limit.

This post has gone from a reasonable discussion to the b****y ridiculous.
Provided by-laws do not suggest otherwise a sailing boat has every right to make passage under sail. If I remember rightly even the Hamble only restricts the use of spinnakers within the river.

If I read the spirit of your post correctly you are suggesting that all sailing vessels, inc. dinghies, boards and yachts should be banned from rivers and harbours. I would think that you probably find rowing boats and tenders inconvenient too, so maybe they should go.






<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Re: I do it...

Ahh! A different argument entirely that is :D

How about some real life examples to get an idea of what you think is too narrow for say, a 30-35 foot Cruiser/Racer? (ie a boat that can actually go to windward)

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Re: I do it...

Nope stugeron,

You haven't read me correctly. My interest is really to see how many of US sailors believe that once we have our flappy bits up then everyone else should get out of the way unless we are on port tack or overtaking.

Someone above states that it will depend upon the circumstances. Yes of course it does but it also depends upon the experience of each helmsman. Not only should that person know his vessel but they will hopefully have sufficient experience to know the capabilities of those vessels around them.

Without this knowledge they cannot proceed safely and thus I respectfully suggest that they should refrain from short tacking in narrow fairways which are congested. That is simply my opinion based on experience and the colregs.

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Re: Are you assuming

that boats under sail aren't under control? Most of us are.

A tacking boat is actually going to the next required turning, just like a MoBo does. We just need more turnings than you do.

Typically a yacht tacking will make the channel as wide as possible. I suspect that the board at right angles to the channel is the easy one for other boats to judge while the tack broadly in line with the channel but crossing at a slight angle can take a bit more understanding, particularly when the windshifts associated with many rivers cause progress to be a bit vague. These windshifts can cause rapid changes to course and speed but they are predictable'ish.

While other vessels can have rights because of the narrow channel you do need to be over 20m or indicating your restricted in some way don't you? Other than that it's a matter of manners rather than rules and it's sad that we're all being tarred with the brush of the HR crew.

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Good question and well put.

I suspect the point wouldn't have been raised were it not for the noisy way the other vessel was proceeding.

Had they threaded their way through the throng as quietly as only a sail boat can, I suspect they would have been applauded rather that blasted.

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Re: I do it...

My personal view is that I would not sail, particularly upwind, into a congested harbour entrance, but would do if necessary. I do regularly sail into the Beaulieu and, dependent upon the conditions within the river, occasionally sail right up to the marina. I like to think that I plan my tacks to take account of depth, obstructions and other river users (sail and power) and that at will time a tack to have minimum impact upon others. I do like to think that others will show me the courtesy of allowing my passage as well. I have no time whatsoever for river users, of any persuasion, whose activities make no allowance for those around them.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
I have never seen the Orwell so busy I would feel it unsafe to tack up or down it. For most of its length it is a broad channel. With a reasonable amount of care, consideration, understanding of the way of a yacht and intelligent application of Colregs, motor boats and yachts should be able to two-step around each other quite safely.

I'm with the guys who believe a sailing boat should sail when it can and the skipper is so minded. If I see a yacht short tacking up a river channel such as the Orwell, Hamble, Fowey etc, I say bravo and good luck to him and time my run to pass him when he is on the other side of the channel. It really isn't difficult.

BUT: clearly there are cicumstances when a yacht has to be sensible and if there are a number of vessels gilling around as they tend to outside, say, Port Hamble Marina on a Sunday afternoon, a quick burst of engine to get through and clear makes sense. Equally, two or three yachts all short tackling up a river, in close company, can make life impossible for any user so again, a degree of good sense and discretion are in order. I have seen the Hamble so busy I would certainly not sail up, but I have seen yachts do it and do it safely without causing undue inconvenience.

Motor boats and Yachts under power encountering a yacht trying to make to windward up a channel, should look to their own boatcraftsmanship and remember their own duties under the Colregs and leave the yacht to mind his.

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Re: I do it...

"c) furling spinnakers in plenty of time in adverse weather conditions, before reaching the moorings - this is particularly applicable to large vessels, which should be under power at busy periods;"

And Chichester harbour........

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>
 
It's fairly obvious that a lot of posters here have not been into Chichester harbour as far as Itchenor. The channel there is no more than 15-20mtres wide, for a distance of about a mile. I have very rarely seen yachts above 8mtrs coming along this stretch using sail only so don't see it as a general problem. BUT, every now and again you do get a yacht trying to make way with not much wind and the tide (which can be up to 5 knots) against them, causing havoc to all craft behind them.

What I find annoying is dinghy's entering this narrow fairway at right angles expecting everyone else to get out of their way/forums/images/icons/mad.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>
 
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