Swing-keel sportsboat?

[PeteCooper]

Thanks Pete for those comparative figures. I always admired the Swift 18, but its fairly racy 1980s styling seems to belie a rather relaxed approach to actual performance. Plus the fan-base for the Swift seems to keep prices very high...

...whereas a glance at Micro 18s generally, seems much more encouraging. The style and the accommodation certainly seem to make more sense than the oversize ballasted dinghy I was visualising.

Do these tiny performance-orientated designs plane to any degree, or are they held back by displacement and waterline length?

Food for thought, anyway. Thanks. :encouragement:

I am told that they plane readily - I have only sailed mine in lightish winds so far and can believe it. My first sail was in very light winds, lots of sail controls not working correctly, and the GPS showed 5.5kts upwind. I haven't tried the kite yet.
As mrming says, if you fancy a go on mine you are welcome.

Our small yacht does 5+ knots upwind, draws just over two feet with the swing keel up and the sail plan is flexible enough for single handing or racing with three on the rail. She's too heavy to plane but will surf with the kite up and some nice waves.

Granted you have the cost of a mooring to consider but on the plus side she's ready to go whenever you fancy a sail.

http://www.beneteau235.com

Interesting - the First 235 has the same handicap as a Sonata on the Clyde - I would expect the First to be quicker. I suspect it is because few 235s have been raced up here where lots of Sonatas have. The wooden Micro 18 that I referred to above regularly beats Sonatas on the water.

 

[mrming]

Interesting - the First 235 has the same handicap as a Sonata on the Clyde - I would expect the First to be quicker. I suspect it is because few 235s have been raced up here where lots of Sonatas have. The wooden Micro 18 that I referred to above regularly beats Sonatas on the water.

We have a good size Sonata fleet on our river and although we rarely start together I have had a few opportunities to compare.

The 235 is much faster than a middle of the road Sonata. The handful of boats at the top of the fleet are a different story however.

In very light winds it takes a much bigger boat to beat the 235.

Once the breeze is F3 and above a top Sonata points extremely high and is a very tricky customer upwind.

Running deep the Sonata is also quick. On a reach (or deeper in windier weather) the 235 is gone as by design the Sonata can't surf.

Given that 2/3 of a typical race is upwind though, it means a top Sonata is hard to beat.

I think there are two factors:

1) The Sonatas have had years of boat to boat racing to optimise their sail plan. The 235 just hasn't had that kind of development and my sails are actually designed by a good Sonata sailor as a sort of best guess as to what should work.

2) The top Sonatas are down to their minimum weight allowed whereas I've got a 4-stroke 8hp motor on the transom, a pretty comfy wooden interior and a porcelain bog.

I think stripping the 235 out and doing some tuning / sail design optimisation with another boat or two would probably close the gap and more. As it stands it's a pretty decent handicap racer and it's devastating in very light airs.

 

[Greenheart]

I could read about your boats all day Pete, MrMing, but reverting for a moment to my theme, I'm just wondering if those First 235s and Sonatas have lifting keels?

Interesting that the (admittedly not reliable) Byron cruiser-PY ratings show the fin and lifting keel versions of the Sonata to be less than 2% different.

It's certainly difficult, having grown fairly accustomed to the appealing pace and easily-driven hull of a big, traditional lightweight dinghy, to contemplate going aboard something like a Corribee and hoping to feel excited. I know there are many compensations, but I think I'll aim at the performance end of the small yacht market, without dispensing with the ability to creek-crawl and dry out.

I begin to understand why people favour those wide-ass Pogos. Basically overgrown dinghies, aren't they.

 

[markhomer]

I recently bought a Micro 18 because I wanted some of the same attributes as the OP. She is quite nippy - sails like a dinghy but not quite as quick, but will plane. Has a cast iron keel so capsizing is reduced(but not prevented completely). I can occasionally sleep aboard. It fits my requirements.

I used to race micro 18 s in the 80 s when they were a blossoming class in uk we sailed a stephen jones one actually called confusingly a micro 18 , my job at winward mark was to get pole and kite flying asap ,followed by winching keel , which was a ballasted centreboard with bulb ALl the way up whatever the wind . I was knackered !!!

 

[mrming]

I could read about your boats all day Pete, MrMing, but reverting for a moment to my theme, I'm just wondering if those First 235s and Sonatas have lifting keels?

Our 235 has a swing keel but the boat was also available with a fin. The swing keel takes the draft from 1.75m to 0.66m. It's pretty handy for our muddy east coast creeks. Lifting keel Sonatas aren't all that common - perhaps because of the whole one design thing. They do exist though.

 

[DJE]

All the cruisers based at our club have drying moorings. We have a Beneteau 235, and two lifting keel Sonatas. But we also have two Beneteau 211s and two E-Boats. Have a look at these last two designs too. The E-boats seem to be doing very well on handicap at the moment but both are sailed by experienced racing crews.

 

[Judders]

The Sonata is not actually much lighter than the F235 but it does have considerably more balast so it's stiffer and cuts to windward better. The F235 is a whole decade younger and flatter bottomed with more sale area. I think I'd be a bit peeved if I had a Snotty and the First rated a similar tcc.

I had an eboat for a year. Legendary boats but mine was too suped up and it kept trying to kill me. That said, if you like that sort of thing, the current owner would probably sell her and the racing sails haven't been used since I had her.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you want a small old cheap boat that does really fly then find a Listang.
But I am not sure about keel configuration it may be fin - would have to google it.
But one was up for £ 199-00 a while ago
Built for the quarter ton level rating worlds ( which it won) but entered the half ton level rating champs & came fairly close to winning that as well

At the risk of starting Seajet off-- then you would not do bad with an Anderson 22.
fairly cheap & some have trailers

 

[PeteCooper]

There are lots of small fast yachts, and many quarter tonners a lot quicker than a Listang, but the OP wants something with dinghy like performance and a lifting ballast keel.

 

[FullCircle]

There are lots of small fast yachts, and many quarter tonners a lot quicker than a Listang, but the OP wants something with dinghy like performance and a lifting ballast keel.

I had a Limbo 6.6 I was fond of, would that do?

 

[PeteCooper]

I had a Limbo 6.6 I was fond of, would that do?

I think that's more in line with what the OP is looking for.

 

[FullCircle]

 

[zadder123]

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