SW HF and SSB Radio

[GHA]

As you point out the former cant do much harm, but actually this is a 3 day license. Many marine SSB radios have been opened up so they become ham radios. The frequencies are then not restricted. Strangely enough it is the same box, same knobs, can be connected to the same PC in the same way if the frequency selection isnt intuitive, hence my point. At its most basic, it is a radio, nothing more and I am cynical amount those that attempt to make it much more complicated than it needs be.

Not quite, it may be able to transmit but there are huge restrictions on control of the transmission. Ham radios you get get right into all the settings and filters and make a right mess all over the frequencies with harmonics or blow the output stage of your radio if you don't know what you are doing. . Digital modes even more so. Marine ssb just won't let you do that, it's completely dumbed down. Your point isn't valid.

 

[GHA]

I guess the issue is the requirement to have a full license to transmit at Sea. If it was possible for a foundation or intermediate to be able to transmit at sea with the restriction of commercial equipment and commercial installation only, then I'm sure there would be much more take up.

That's why marine ssb exists. Ham use by a few yachties and others like aussie fishermen in much of the world is tolerated as to do so you need to know what you are doing and pass an exam to demonstrate that but strictly speaking it's bending the definitions a bit.

 

[dolabriform]

That's why marine ssb exists. Ham use by a few yachties and others like aussie fishermen in much of the world is tolerated as to do so you need to know what you are doing and pass an exam to demonstrate that but strictly speaking it's bending the definitions a bit.

I understand why Marine SSB exists, but it seems it's very limited. The article you linked to talks about the American version of the HAM license which is a lot easier to obtain than a UK Full license. I understand the issues surrounding blowing things up, but I do feel that the requirement for a full HAM license to be able to transmit at Sea is a bit OTT.

 

[Roberto]

I understand why Marine SSB exists, but it seems it's very limited. The article you linked to talks about the American version of the HAM license which is a lot easier to obtain than a UK Full license. I understand the issues surrounding blowing things up, but I do feel that the requirement for a full HAM license to be able to transmit at Sea is a bit OTT.

IIRC, rather than specifically maritime mobile, the Full license is required to access HF (and additional power), which seems sensible as interference (unwanted or wanted) can go to thousands of miles. Then yes once at sea one would generally use SSB in HF ham bands to achieve long distance communications.

Just curiosity have they changed the rules in the UK? Does one have to go through all the intermediate licensing steps before accessing the Full type? When I took mine I went directly for RAE and Morse (at that time) to get the Full one.

 

[dolabriform]

IIRC, rather than specifically maritime mobile, the Full license is required to access HF (and additional power), which seems sensible as interference (unwanted or wanted) can go to thousands of miles. Then yes once at sea one would generally use SSB in HF ham bands to achieve long distance communications.

Just curiosity have they changed the rules in the UK? Does one have to go through all the intermediate licensing steps before accessing the Full type? When I took mine I went directly for RAE and Morse (at that time) to get the Full one.

Yes, you have to go through all the steps now.

 

[Skylark]

Yes, you have to go through all the steps now.

Topically, there is currently a consultation regarding direct access to full license. Here's a link with background and includes a link to the survey. It closes on 14th March.

Direct Entry to Full Licence: RSGB Consultation - Radio Society of Great Britain - Main Site : Radio Society of Great Britain – Main Site

The old A and B licenses became sequentially Foundation, Intermediate and Advanced around 2001 or thereabouts. Compulsory Morse was dropped in July 2003 and A and B were merged into Full.

I still have fond memories of doing City & Guilds RAE at a local college and driving to a Coastal Radio Station for a Morse test. There remains a lot of Morse traffic on amateur bands but, sadly, much of it is high speed machine generated and is near-impossible to copy by ear, especially for me

 

[ip485]

Not quite, it may be able to transmit but there are huge restrictions on control of the transmission. Ham radios you get get right into all the settings and filters and make a right mess all over the frequencies with harmonics or blow the output stage of your radio if you don't know what you are doing. . Digital modes even more so. Marine ssb just won't let you do that, it's completely dumbed down. Your point isn't valid.

I use an Icom M710. It is very popular on yachts. Many people open up the 710 to all the frequencies; it works just fine. There are a number of other Icom models to name just one manufacturer used in this way. My point is therefore entirely valid I would contend.

 

[GHA]

I use an Icom M710. It is very popular on yachts. Many people open up the 710 to all the frequencies; it works just fine. There are a number of other Icom models to name just one manufacturer used in this way. My point is therefore entirely valid I would contend.

What was your point? You shouldn't be transmitting on any other frequencies than the ones on your license. A full ham license lets you transmit on anything you can build out of tin cans and wires up to 400w, to do that without making a mess or damage you need to know what you are doing thus the fairly complex syllabus and exam. Just because there are some simple radios which you can use as well is irreverent. No point trying to talk on the ham bands if you don't have a license anyway, they'll suss you out in a second and ignore you.

 

[ip485]

That's why marine ssb exists. Ham use by a few yachties and others like aussie fishermen in much of the world is tolerated as to do so you need to know what you are doing and pass an exam to demonstrate that but strictly speaking it's bending the definitions a bit.

I dont think it is correct to say it is tolerated, it is entirely legal and sensible.

I can think of no better use that at sea ?.

 

[ip485]

Gha you have missed my point entirely.

My point, and one made by a few others, is it isnt necessary to have the skills you refer to, to use the equipment I referred to, and there are many who have zero interest in tin cans.

Tin cans is entirely and invention of the licensing system, in the same way I can legally us HF when flying without a tin can in sight.

Since I have probably have more licences than most including an unrestricted I suspect I am as entitled as anyone to put both sides of the argument, and I see no reason why yachtsmen should not be entitled to use their equipment to the full extent they wish without all this nonesense that they need to understand how to string a couple of cans together. Of course I guess it is why those that do so legally do not hold a UK licence. Btw if you have operated in the Windies as I mentioned earlier you will find no one is remotely bothered about what level you have, radio use is for real, sometimes even sharing life and death information, and no one is especially interested in the nonesense the land lubbers have turned it into. Ps just saying how it is, please dont get all upset and defensive. ?

 

[GHA]

I dont think it is correct to say it is tolerated, it is entirely legal and sensible.

I can think of no better use that at sea ?.

"Amateur radio, also known as ham radio, is the use of radio frequency spectrum for purposes of non-commercial exchange of messages, wireless experimentation, self-training, private recreation, radiosport, contesting, and emergency communication "
Doesn't really mention getting gribs emailed, which is a main reason for having ham offshore.
Do you have a ham license?

 

[GHA]

Since I have probably have more licences than most including an unrestricted I suspect I am as entitled as anyone to put both sides of the argument, and I see no reason why yachtsmen should not be entitled to use their equipment to the full extent they wish without all this nonesense that they need to understand how to string a couple of cans together.

OK, now we're getting somewhere, so you think the ham setup should be changed and new licensing created which doesn't involve the historic experimentation and building your own kit but new licenses just for yachtsmen who want easy radios. That exists already, marine SSB.
No one cares anyway, ham is healthy and won't change as there's no reason to do so.

 

[Slowboat35]

A full ham license lets you transmit on anything you can build out of tin cans and wires up to 400w, to do that without making a mess or damage you need to know what you are doing thus the fairly (!!!) complex syllabus and exam. Just because there are some simple radios which you can use as well is irreverent.

Without wishing to sound 'irreverent'(sic) - this ridiculous straw empire you are describing is directly equivalent to claiming "A full driving licence lets you drive anything you can build out of tin cans and wires up to 3 tons, to do that without making a mess or damage you need to know what you are doing thus the fairly (!!!) complex syllabus and exam. Just because there are some simple cars which you can buy as well is irreverent."

So unless you spend months , if not a year or more studying so you can design and build a car from scrap, garbage and toilet paper tubes - and prove its safe - you aren't of a sufficient level of competence or expertise to be allowed behind the wheel of a simple car made in a factory? Wow! Just pure, astonished, mind-boggled "wow"!

You can't read this carp with a straight face, it's so utterly daft! Who are you going to kill with a radio - unlike a car, homebuilt or not???

Sorry, this is no more than a restrictive practice to protect a club of self-elected antique-tech Napoleons from both progress and the modern world and exclude the Great Unwashed from their secret, mystical, magical and esoteric activities. ie talking to each other by radio, something we all actually do every day without hurting anyone nor, apparently, the need for any licence at all!...Let alone needing the ability to build a mobile phone from tin cans, ferrite and cats whiskers.

It's a silly anachronism on a level with men carrying red flags walking in front of those home-made cars that so obsess them..

 

[GHA]

You forgot to add imho..................

 

[KompetentKrew]

The Foundation license is a doddle, not sure about the Intermediate which I'm studying for at the moment.

This bloke got his Advanced in 4 weeks so claims of "a year studying" seem hyperbolic.

Might as well get your ham license at the moment, if you're interested, as they have waived the practical elements for the duration of the pandemic and introduced online invigilation.

I have the impression that marine SSB licensing is not policed once you're far offshore, whereas hams do indeed take themselves too seriously and will refuse to talk to you if you don't have a legitimate callsign (which can only be obtained by passing the ham exams).

 

[Roberto]

whereas hams do indeed take themselves too seriously and will refuse to talk to you if you don't have a legitimate callsign (which can only be obtained by passing the ham exams).

Hello KK,
no no it's more selfish than that the reason hams do not want to talk with non licensed persons is they would be at high risk to lose their licence.
regards

 

[ip485]

OK, now we're getting somewhere, so you think the ham setup should be changed and new licensing created which doesn't involve the historic experimentation and building your own kit but new licenses just for yachtsmen who want easy radios. That exists already, marine SSB.
No one cares anyway, ham is healthy and won't change as there's no reason to do so.

No, I dont think so.

I think there is a valid discussion for an additional licence for sailors to enable them to use the ham frequencies on unmodified sets with the emphasise on the comms aspect and not the other components, while aboard and with an agreed prefix or suffix. Marine SSB does not permit access to all the ham frequencies, and, in any event marine SSB is usually at least a three day residential course in the UK which is unnecessary and why most people dont bother.

Ham is doing ok, but it isnt true it is healthy in the UK. Ofcom‘s latest data is numbers are consistently falling.

As I said earlier I believe this is a valid discussion. On here these discussions I dont think warrant sarcastic responses or even attempts to belittle others. We like to have a friendly fact based exchange of views even if we disagree. I know traditional ham operators tend to get very excited and defensive about their hobby, but do remember it is exactly this, a hobby. Blue water and live aboard yachtsman are also usually hobbyists as well but use radios not only to chat, but as important means of comms. At one time a significant number of those on the ARC for example used a SSB, now almost no one does and Sat comms are largely taking over. This I think is a great shame for all concerned. I have Fleetbroad band but it is very expensive at over £5k a year for a very basic package and inevitably one to one. However airtime rates will fall as will the use then of ham aboard yachts, a loss I believe for all.

For me all my radio use is about comms. I have zero interest in strings and tin cans. As a pilot and skipper I probably use comms more than the majority of ham operators out of necessity and I am not therefore primarily a hobbyist.