surveyors

[jocasam]

I'm wanting to buy my first boat on a very limited budget £1500 max and have benefited from the threads from other new users. You guys are very helpful & enthusiastic. My query is - I don't know enough to judge a boat myself but do surveyors only consider more expensive boats &/or charge fees disproportionate to this sort of value? If so, is there another source of expert advice?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[sailorman]

Welcome
my son had his Cinder 22 surveyed for ins + valuation when he bought it 2 yrs ago
valued @ £3.5k cost of survey around £150
if u dont need survey ect for the ins, & as the value isnt that high get a mate of local forumite to give her the "once-over" & stand the risk of buying yourself
good luck with your new venture
roger

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Thistle]

Consider buying through a dealer rather than privately. The price will go up a little because they need their cut but they should give honest answers to questions about the condition of the boat: remember, they'll want your business again next time when you trade up to a more expensive model and they want you to tell all your friends how good they are.

Take sailorman's advice as well. A friend who knows what questions to ask is valuable.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[stevebrassett]

Surveyors vary a lot in their fees. For my 23-footer, I was quoted anywhere
between about £180 and about £400. There were quite a few around £ 10 per
foot.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Koeketiene]

Get a friend to take a look - cheaper & if he knows his stuff his friendly appraisal will serve you better.
For one, you know he's on your side.

In general I have found surveyors to be a waste of money and time. They work for both ends of the market (buyers & sellers) and therefore try to cover themselves both ways. They will either point out the bleeding obvious, or be vague in the extreme.

Hint: if in a survey something is described as satisfactory they mean "it'll do for now, but needs replacing soon".

<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.

 

[fastjedi]

I have just traded up from a £3,000 trailer sailer to a very much more expensive yacht. I didn't have the trailer sailer surveyed ... but I did have a hull survey on the new yacht. There's no way I would pay for a survey on something of that value ... but I would be very carefull and methodical about any you look at. Most forum members will tell you there is a very fine line between a £1500 boat and a £5000 boat ..... and the former can quickley turn into the later if you don't chose wisely!!! Pretend you are a surveyor on behalf of your client! Make a check list. Be warey of boats that have recently been refinished below the waterline. If it's a trailer boat .... consider the trailer as carefully as the boat. And one final caution ... you won't be inclined to use anything that is unreliable!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[William_H]

All good advice however it is perhaps more important to buy the boat that will suit you. The problem is you won't know until you try for a few years. There is a lot to be said for a trailer boat because of the convenience of being able to do the work at home and being able to go to different places while cutting mooring costs ie it doesn't cost so much if you don't use it. Of course there are things you wouldn't do with a TS which may limit your enjoyment. Providing the hull is fibreglass then you should buy as large as you can on the theory that yopu can repair or replace everything else and hopefully enjoy the exercise. The point being it is a waste of money to buy a boat, spend a lot of effort on renovation then sell it and start again, better get what you want in the first place. good luck and I hope you enjoy ownership as I have with the same boat for 23 years. will

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Inselaffe]

I had the same dillema last year on a larger but still relatively small budget. but I am in germany where its quite normal not to use a surveyor at this end of the market. the costs compared to my budget would have been too much anyway. From what i can gather we seem to be much more anal about this survey stuff than the Germans...

I used the following books to give me an initial idea

Surveying Fibreglass Sailboats: A Step-by-step Guide for Buyers and Owners  
Henry C. Mustin

Fibreglass boats by hugo du plessis

Then asked more experienced people for every bit of info i could (till they would run at the sight of me!) and used this excellent forum ad infinitum!

If i had had a friend with more experience over here then i would have certainly taken them with me, but that wasnt possible.

In the end I took the same kind of risk that I do every time i buy a 2nd hand car (same price or more) and took as much care as possible and asked as much info as possible from as many sources as possible and then took the plunge.

So far so good, a couple of small worries, but hey, I got an old cheap boat, and i have friends with brand new boats with much worse problems.

All i know now is that last year with her was the best in my life since dad arrived home with a beat up very old mirror dinghy when I was 10 - even if the boat burns, folds up and sinks next spring it would all have been well worth it!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[SteveGorst]

Re:fun

Well you can't go far wrong if you buy an Etap can you /forums/images/icons/wink.gif


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nwcc.info>North Wales Cruising Club</A>

 

[Koeketiene]

Re:fun

Seconded

<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.

 

[jocasam]

Re:fun

Ta - haven't heard of an Etap - is there a site I can view its details?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jocasam]

Thanks a lot for the advice folks. Very pleasantly surprised at the number and speed. Mind-blown that forumites might be willing to help look at a boat in their area!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Stemar]

I'm no expert, but I'd agree that a survey is probably a waste of money. On that budget, comprehensive insurance is probably not cost effective, and you'll be able to find third party without.

Most surveys I've seen have six pages of "it wasn't possible to inspect the keel bolts. Recommend a sample be withdrawn and inspected" and assorted rear end covering, plus a couple of pages of useful infomation like the "portside sheet winch is seized. Recommendation: Replace it." Right, I'd never have found that on my own. I'll take it apart and clean it up.

Look at any boat with your eyes wide open, and sternly reject any lemons, but don't just buy the boat that looks right on paper. The right one will wink at you and whisper "Buy me" in your ear. So will a few clapped out old slappers, but that's why you have two eyes and only one heart. If they all agree, go for it!!

At your budget, you'll probably end up with a trailer sailer. The advice given above to examine any trailer very carefully is sound. Knackered bearings probably aren't an issue, but structural rust is.

You're not going to get a boat with no "issues" that a survey would frighten you with. The "big thing" is blisters. These are less likely on a trailer sailer, but possible. Unless there're so enormous that you can't miss them (inches across), they're most unlikely to be anything but a negotiating point for you - or a subsequent buyer to negociate a price reduction. You can treat them, but unless there are lots, IMHO, it's almost certainly not worth it. Most of the rest is common sense.

I'd look carefully at the mast, boom and standing rigging, as I suspect a trailer sailer may well get some serious hammer in that area, stepping and dropping the mast. Scratches aren't too much of a problem, but dings or bends are.

If stainless steel standing rigging has any rust or visible damage budget for replacing it all ASAP. If it's more than 10 years old, but looks OK, budget for changing it before too long.

Tatty varnish means work, but not much money if the wood is sound. A faded or pitted gelcoat isn't pretty, but that can be addressed when you can afford it.

Dodgy electronics are expensive, but dodgy electrics are fixable if you know your way around car electics or are prepared to learn. (cue weeping and gnashing of teeth, but you'll get there in the end)

As you're starting, unless the motor (probably an outboard) is obviously sound, budget for a replacement. The last thing you need is an unreliable engine. If it starts well from cold, idles properly, has plenty of water coming out of the telltale and pushes the boat along nicely, it's probably fine. Find out from the seller how much oil you need to mix in if it's a 2 stroke.

I bought my first boat 18months ago. I didn't get a survey done, but did take a friend. The boat was out of the water, but both my friend - a qualified diesel mechanic and I, who am not entirely ignorant on the subject of engines, gave the engine a clean bill of health, as far as we could tell, but the only major problem I've had with the boat has been with the engine, something no survey would have picked up! In spite of this, and everything I knew before I bought her, I love her!

Good luck!



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Inselaffe]

Re:fun

http://isuisse.ifrance.com/LaVoile/mc-e-image/etap/etap22/etap22_photo_test.htm

http://www.etapyachting.com/index.cfm?Part=Yachts&Page=EarlierModels

http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/su...ap+22&FZART=s&STARTSUCHE.x=15&STARTSUCHE.y=11

sorry - I'm too lazy to do it clickable!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jocasam]

thanks for the practical tips.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jocasam]

Re:fun

Thanks for the sites - at least you know how to make them clickable!

<hr width=100% size=1>