Survey problems - advice needed please

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ufo-digital

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OK, so the situation is that about a month ago I paid £550 to a reputable marine surveyor for a survey of a steel yacht. The owner of the yacht was given ample notice and opportunity to be present but declined. I was unable to be present either but was informed by the surveyor that this was not a problem.

I got a phone call from the surveyor about two hours after he started the survey basically informing me that the hull was a heap of corrosion and filler and asking permission to terminate the survey. I agreed and he informed me that I would get a partial refund and a report.

I got a £100 refund a couple of days later but no report. I didn't follow this up as I had no further interest in the yacht.

Yesterday I got an email from the owner accusing me or my surveyor of vandalising his boat. He says that he did not give his agreement to a hull thickness survey and that we should have come to a separate prior arrangement that I would make good any damage caused if I didn't buy the boat. He now demands that I pay to put right the damage.

I've never had a boat surveyed before but surely a hull thickness test is central to any survey of a steel yacht? I'm assuming that the 'damage' was caused by the surveyor dislodging lumps of filler in search of bare metal but not having seen any photos I don't know.

What is the legal situation here?

At no point before the survey did the owner ask about a hull thickness survey or mention the need for a separate agreement.
At no point did the surveyor warn me that the survey might involve him damaging the boat and that I would be liable to make this good.

Ideally I want the owner and the surveyor to thrash this out amongst themselves, but before I email anyone I would really appreciate some advice on the best way forward...

Many thanks in advance
 
Dont know about the legality of the owners claim or not but suspect that he would have to raise a claim against the surveyor, not you. In the first instance inform the surveyor, he should have insurance for any liabilities. I would also ask for the survey and issue it free to the owner fo the vessel thus making him aware of the risk.
 
Thanks - yes, that's my feeling too. If the surveyor could pass on responsibility for his mistakes he wouldn't need insurance at all
 
The surveyor would be liable if there was a valid claim but a corrosion survey is absolutely normal for a steel boat so that's unlikely.
 
Assuming the surveyor didn't actually trash the boat, surely the direct analogy is the selective removal of coatings to test moisture values in a GRP hull? Sellers aren't always happy with it, but it's certainly routine.
 
The seller is an idiot. ;)

When he says that "he did not give his agreement to a hull thickness survey and that we should have come to a separate prior arrangement that I would make good any damage caused if I didn't buy the boat" what he means is that he should have proposed a "separate prior arrangement" if that is what he now believes was required.

The Surveyor will give him short shrift. :encouragement:

Richard
 
Your surveyor was only doing his job properly and has most likely surveyed metal hulls before. He cannot do his survey without a metal thickness test and your future insurers would demand one before accepting the risk. I am please to note that he called off the survey and offered you a partial refund it says a lot about him/her. Not sure where you stand regarding legally regarding owners issues but I would imagine the owner was aware the hull was not great and tried to move it on by disguising the condition. As an owner of two steel yachts in the past please do not be put off by metal yachts. They are a very reassuring platforms to be on when things turn nasty or berthing in some odd locations.
 
Many thanks for all the replies - reassuring on the whole :)
The seller must have been aware of the condition of the hull as he had applied a very thick coat of paint very recently (and very poorly). Also he purchased the boat himself only a year previously (without having it surveyed as far as I am aware) and I suspect he is trying to recoup some of his loss.
I think I will forward the seller's email to the surveyor and ask him to email his report directly to the seller, neatly removing myself from the loop :)
Thanks again
 
I find this nonesense about hull surveys very frustrating. The other common one is for a seller to refuse a small area of antifoul to be removed or insist it is made good. If you want to sell a boat and know / believe it to be in good condition you should also know it comes with the territory. In addition to the above comments I might be tempted (if he is awkward) to also add that you will seek to recover all your costs from him for misdescribing the vessel and wasting your time with a survey in the first place. Whatever happens, will he take you to even the small claims court - I doubt it, and, if he does his chances of success are very poor.
 
The surveyor will probably have taken lots of photos - far more than ever get included in a report. Pretty likely he'll have photographed areas both before he touched them and whilst he was taking the measurements.
 
I had a survey done on an old wooden boat I was considering buying. The seller was present, and so was I. The surveyor went round jabbing a penknife blade into the strakes. It went in up to the hilt very easily. We all retired to the club bar where the desperate seller kept adjusting his price downwards. I caught the surveyor's eye and a shake of his head told me not to buy the boat at any price. I didn't.
 
I think the seller can reasonably expect not to have any expense associated with making good after the survey if you decide not to go ahead so to that extent he may have a point. However it is hard to see how any reasonable survey could lead to a substantial amount of work to make good, and any claim he wanted to make would require him to get his own witnesses that would probably cost more than he could claim.

Note that you have your own issues with the surveyor as he has not yet fulfilled his contract with you by providing the survey you paid for so there may be issues about his professionalism.

You might also ask the seller, with the protection of a "without prejudice save as to costs" line, to provide a quotation describing the damage he alleges was caused and a cost for making it good.
 
bedouin said:
Note that you have your own issues with the surveyor as he has not yet fulfilled his contract with you by providing the survey you paid for so there may be issues about his professionalism.
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To be fair he probably put it to the bottom of the pile after giving the refund and seeing the sale fall through. I imagine he'll be as surprised as the OP by the sellers claims. The OP should contact him.
 
lpdsn said:
To be fair he probably put it to the bottom of the pile after giving the refund and seeing the sale fall through. I imagine he'll be as surprised as the OP by the sellers claims. The OP should contact him.
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Yes but he has still had £450 so really ought to give the OP something for that - I would have expected a much more substantial discount for an oral "don't buy" comment only.

Not a big deal but the OP is being left a little out on a limb taking action on the basis of a "report" he hasn't seen. Without that he cannot show his actions are reasonable so would be hard pressed to defend any court action.
 
bedouin said:
Yes but he has still had £450 so really ought to give the OP something for that - I would have expected a much more substantial discount for an oral "don't buy" comment only.

Not a big deal but the OP is being left a little out on a limb taking action on the basis of a "report" he hasn't seen. Without that he cannot show his actions are reasonable so would be hard pressed to defend any court action.
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Yes, it wasn't a huge discount under the circumstances but the surveyor would've committed most of his day to it.

I agree the OP is left a bit out on a limb and will need a report now in case it gets more serious. I'm sure the surveyor will produce a report if asked, as I said earlier he probably just assumed the matter was pretty much closed. He won't have anticipated the seller making a fuss over it. Hence my comment that the OP should contact the surveyor.
 
ufo-digital said:
Many thanks for all the replies - reassuring on the whole :)
The seller must have been aware of the condition of the hull as he had applied a very thick coat of paint very recently (and very poorly)...
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Ah yes, that's what people used to do with Ford Escorts!
 
bedouin said:
Yes but he has still had £450 so really ought to give the OP something for that - I would have expected a much more substantial discount for an oral "don't buy" comment only.

Not a big deal but the OP is being left a little out on a limb taking action on the basis of a "report" he hasn't seen. Without that he cannot show his actions are reasonable so would be hard pressed to defend any court action.
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Do you get a full report done on all work you commission?

Professionally I am often called in and can tell very quickly what is going on; the client is paying for my knowledge not my time.
 
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