Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
Fair point. I was working on the personal experiences of more than one acquaintance who seemed to think that there was a lot less industry back scratching going on.
survey not worth the money
- Thread starter actionoptics
- Start date
Fair point. I was working on the personal experiences of more than one acquaintance who seemed to think that there was a lot less industry back scratching going on.
fragglerock
New Member
As a seller would you be okay with a prospective purchaser doing the things a surveyor should, like knocking around the hull and topside with a rubber mallet and squeezing all the hoses etc etc.
I am soon to be a purchaser, and I will get a survey for insurance and somewhat peace of mind, but I don't want to shell out £600 on every possible that is out there, so would like to have the chance to eliminate some wet clunkers on my own... but I can imagine it being a bit irritating if every purchaser starts bashing around and tugging on all the pipes and tubes in the depths of the lockers. Let alone breaking out a multimeter to check the earthing of sockets etc!
I am soon to be a purchaser, and I will get a survey for insurance and somewhat peace of mind, but I don't want to shell out £600 on every possible that is out there, so would like to have the chance to eliminate some wet clunkers on my own... but I can imagine it being a bit irritating if every purchaser starts bashing around and tugging on all the pipes and tubes in the depths of the lockers. Let alone breaking out a multimeter to check the earthing of sockets etc!
prv
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not on a first date
I'd expect to be some way into the process, with a provisionally agreed and acceptable price and an expectation all round that the sale will be going ahead if the boat proves to be in the condition you believe, before you spent hours investigating every cranny and scraping and hitting things.
Of course that doesn't mean you can't have a good look in the engine bay and under the bunks and so on before that point, certainly enough to "eliminate wet clunkers". Indeed if I had someone spending a little time looking at the plumbing and checking how the deck fittings work, I might be inclined to consider them a more serious potential purchaser that someone who just admires the upholstery for a bit.
Pete
Bobc
Well-Known Member
I've used surveyors three times in the UK, and all times have been completely un-impressed by them.
Once was when buying my first boat (told me loads of little issues which I didn't care about, but missed a major issue with one of the keel stubs.
Second time was when my second boat was out for osmosis treatment. The yard spotted a problem and suggested I get a surveyor to look at it. The surveyor did a complete survey and told me that there were things wrong with the boat that were fine (I'd already owned the boat for 5 years and knew it inside-out). However, he completly failed to look at and report on the one thing the yard mentioned. I ended up sorting it out myself with the yard.
The third time was when I was considering coding the current boat. The surveyor told mt that the mast had a bend in it, probably due to a crash gybe and that I should put in an insurance claim and have it replaced, and that he wouldn't sign it off for coding as it was. I took the boat to Allspars, and they said that there was nothing wrong with the rig, which has proved to be the case as that was 6 years ago an we've been out in 7s and 8s with no issues.
So, I won't use them again, and my advice to anyone buying a boat is if you know boats and know what you're looking at, save your money.
Once was when buying my first boat (told me loads of little issues which I didn't care about, but missed a major issue with one of the keel stubs.
Second time was when my second boat was out for osmosis treatment. The yard spotted a problem and suggested I get a surveyor to look at it. The surveyor did a complete survey and told me that there were things wrong with the boat that were fine (I'd already owned the boat for 5 years and knew it inside-out). However, he completly failed to look at and report on the one thing the yard mentioned. I ended up sorting it out myself with the yard.
The third time was when I was considering coding the current boat. The surveyor told mt that the mast had a bend in it, probably due to a crash gybe and that I should put in an insurance claim and have it replaced, and that he wouldn't sign it off for coding as it was. I took the boat to Allspars, and they said that there was nothing wrong with the rig, which has proved to be the case as that was 6 years ago an we've been out in 7s and 8s with no issues.
So, I won't use them again, and my advice to anyone buying a boat is if you know boats and know what you're looking at, save your money.
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ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I had my boat surveyed by Nick Vass (Omega yacht services) and was very pleased with the report which was very comprehensive and highlighted items that should be done before putting to sea and others that could be left. I was present for the survey and learned a lot.
actionoptics
Well-Known Member
Oh, dear. It was Nick Vaas who surveyed my LM 30 !
I almost forgot the big one. He said the deck was delaminating. The purchaser asked Bucklers Hard Boat Builders to give an estimate for the cost of repair. They checked the deck and coachroof and reported that there was no delamination.
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Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
Popcorn time
Iain C
Well-Known Member
I'm with BobC. My first boat was inherited, so obviously I didn't have a survey done, however I had a copy of the previous survey. Loads of pinnicky little grumblings about a scratch in the gelcoat here, and paragraphs of "no idea how old this, that and the next thing is", but had totally failed to inspect some known weak spots around rudder shaft tang weld failures, and elongation of the bizarre "cranked" chain plate arrangement. A quick word with the owner's association would have highlighted these weak spots. Needless to say, during the course of my ownership all of these have been addressed. Interesting that my insurance company don't want a survey on my current boat...as it's 47 years old they just want a condition report from me and some photos...nor do they want a survey on the 2004 AWB I shortly hope to "complete" on as it's too new. Kinda makes you wonder what value a survey adds to be honest if you have a modicum of common engineering sense around you.
I think that surveys are like an AA vehicle inspection. If you're buying a 15 year old Porsche Boxster, the AA will tell you how much tread the tyres have, whether the exhaust system has any leaks, whether anything electrical doesn't work etc. Whoopee dos...what you should be looking for is whether the RMS seal is leaking, has the IMS bearing been changed, are the drains under the hood blocked, and when you plug a diagnostic machine in has it had any over-revs due to a messed up downchange...all info readily available on the internet.
I think that surveys are like an AA vehicle inspection. If you're buying a 15 year old Porsche Boxster, the AA will tell you how much tread the tyres have, whether the exhaust system has any leaks, whether anything electrical doesn't work etc. Whoopee dos...what you should be looking for is whether the RMS seal is leaking, has the IMS bearing been changed, are the drains under the hood blocked, and when you plug a diagnostic machine in has it had any over-revs due to a messed up downchange...all info readily available on the internet.
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PCUK
Well-Known Member
Many so called surveyors are just BSS numpties who know very little other than what the BSS book says. If I could find the name of the last idiot who "surveyed" my boat I would happily tell you.
colhel
Well-Known Member
I think the problem is a survey is either carried out on behalf of the purchaser or vendor which questions the impartially and the accuracy.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
I had a survey carried out on my recently purchased boat mainly for practical reasons. I didn't have much opportunity to check the boat before making an offer and I was back in Turkey by the time we agreed the price and the boat is in Preveza. If the boat was in a convenient location for me I would have spent more time checking it myself before I made an offer and I would not have bothered with a survey. I had bought other boats previously and never used a surveyor. Anyway I did a bit of research mainly on this forum and found a surveyor in Lefkas, Kevan Whittle, who was highly recommended and he did the survey for me. I was happy with what he did and to answer the thread title it was definitely worth the money for me because of my circumstances.
C08
Well-Known Member
Some of these boat surveyors must have gone to the same school as my building surveyor who said there was not enough room for a garage at the side- there was nearly 12ft, there was no mains gas-there was a gas cooker & fire, a clue, there was no main sewage. Also there was a serious wall problem based on one cement crack in 1 brick in the eaves. A plonker.
Also the strucrural engineer who did not detect that a timber & stud wall with expanded metal and a waterproof concrete render was not a brick wall. Could go on and on........so many experiences of "qualified" idiots and rip off merchants. If you know about boats the main reason for surveys is to keep the insurers happy, not found a way around that!
Also the strucrural engineer who did not detect that a timber & stud wall with expanded metal and a waterproof concrete render was not a brick wall. Could go on and on........so many experiences of "qualified" idiots and rip off merchants. If you know about boats the main reason for surveys is to keep the insurers happy, not found a way around that!
colind3782
Well-Known Member
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to have a survey to renew my insurance this year, I wouldn't go near the shysters.
prv
Well-Known Member
pandos
Well-Known Member
I bought my boat after a surveyer for a previous prospective buyer had said it had osmosis, 10 years later none has appeared ,,,, also recommended the 12v fuel priming pump be removed, whilst the alternator which had actually disentegrated and fallen off "may need attention"
when I sold my boat I insisted that any surveyor would prepare the survey for both seller and buyer and if the sale did not proceed that I would receive a copy of the survey and be allowed to comment prior to the buyer receiving it, I was near the boat during the survey and he had no issue with discussing it before he committed it to paper...
the simple fact is that a bad survey could unfairly damage the selling prospects especially if a broker is involved and is compelled to tell a buyer that the boat has already failed a survey...
To answer your question I used a survey to get out of buying a boat in the past, I would have simply taken the hit on new sails on the chin as it was an old boat but his belief was that they were not servicable and therefore I had no obligation to proceed, the seller was not even surprised and handed back the deposit without blinking, so.... I guess the answer is sometimes
when I sold my boat I insisted that any surveyor would prepare the survey for both seller and buyer and if the sale did not proceed that I would receive a copy of the survey and be allowed to comment prior to the buyer receiving it, I was near the boat during the survey and he had no issue with discussing it before he committed it to paper...
the simple fact is that a bad survey could unfairly damage the selling prospects especially if a broker is involved and is compelled to tell a buyer that the boat has already failed a survey...
To answer your question I used a survey to get out of buying a boat in the past, I would have simply taken the hit on new sails on the chin as it was an old boat but his belief was that they were not servicable and therefore I had no obligation to proceed, the seller was not even surprised and handed back the deposit without blinking, so.... I guess the answer is sometimes
