Sunsail in the Solent

[Mudisox]

I thought this thread was about Sunsail.

One large teaching body, operating mainly in the SW, with certainly a semi corporate approach to teaching younger people how to use, enjoy and understand the sea; seem to do so with also a high regard as to etiquette, and seem to manage very well and is respected by most folk around. They are very visible in their yachts and motor boats. They progress to sail on bigger boats albeit with a fairly distinctive grey funnel/livery. A slightly different approach to pushing through training in the most cost effective way. And there is a fairly high proportion of what may be termed hooray henrys about.

I welcome them alongside, and seem to be very competent. Maybe a solent thing though.

 

[Seajet]

And even if that is true, if the sunsail yacht can do that if affects you how?

What affects me, as I have said from my first post, is when Sunsail boats crash into mine, either in attempts to lay alongside or just general manouvering; skippered or chartered, the same rude arrogance applies, as if ' anything without Sunsail written on it must be a fender '...

 

[Seajet]

I propose a Sunsail boat handling competition.

In the red corner: typical Sunsail skippers.

In the blue corner: owners of boats <30 feet LOA who are confident in their boat handling but have never skippered anything bigger.

Weapon of choice: Sunsail Farr 40.

Should be interesting. We could maybe get Dylan to film it.

By the way, before anyone accuses me of having a vested interest, I've never skippered a Sunsail boat (tagged along on a couple of corporate charters but had to be discrete as I didn't actually work for the relevant corporation). I always found the Solent charter companies who were fussiest about who chartered their boats gave the best value for money, so always ended up going elsewhere.

OK You organise it, I'll be there. PM me for contact details.

Andy

 

[flaming]

What affects me, as I have said from my first post, is when Sunsail boats crash into mine, either in attempts to lay alongside or just general manouvering; skippered or chartered, the same rude arrogance applies, as if ' anything without Sunsail written on it must be a fender '...

How often do 40 foot Sunsail boats try and moor against 22 foot Andersons?

 

[Elessar]

What affects me, as I have said from my first post, is when Sunsail boats crash into mine, either in attempts to lay alongside or just general manouvering; skippered or chartered, the same rude arrogance applies, as if ' anything without Sunsail written on it must be a fender '...

So being able to sail a dinghy reduces rudeness. Hmm.

 

[Seajet]

Flaming,

you are showing you know what you're up to - but maybe unfamiliar with being a cruiser owner - by sounding surprised !

 

[Seajet]

So being able to sail a dinghy reduces rudeness. Hmm.

I have said what I need to about that, meanwhile 1 out of 2 of us is wiling for a go in a dinghy; come on, I'm old and rusty now...

 

[flaming]

Flaming,

you are showing you know what you're up to - but maybe unfamiliar with being a cruiser owner - by sounding surprised !

So you frequently get Sunsail first 40s trying to raft to you in your Anderson 22?

 

[l'escargot]

How often do 40 foot Sunsail boats try and moor against 22 foot Andersons...

...parked on a trailer...?

 

[doris]

A few years ago going up the Lymington River at about 17.30 on a lovely summers evening we were confronted by the opi fleet. Nippers 7/8 years olds swarming all over the river. We slowed down as much as possible and crept up trying our best to be accomodating. The abuse, the four letter words, the aggression thrown at us was amazing. Sweet, beautifully
spoken, foul mouthed children, dinghy experts in the making. Dinghy sailors, perfect manners, hmmmmmmm?

Was a classic never to be forgotten.

 

[benjenbav]

I have said what I need to about that, meanwhile 1 out of 2 of us is wiling for a go in a dinghy; come on, I'm old and rusty now...

Tbh, I think a Forum regatta in - say - Lasers would be a great idea. I'd love to take part. Not as any sort of a grudge match but just as half a dozen blokes off the internet having a laugh. Winner buys the first round...

 

[jac]

A few years ago going up the Lymington River at about 17.30 on a lovely summers evening we were confronted by the opi fleet. Nippers 7/8 years olds swarming all over the river. We slowed down as much as possible and crept up trying our best to be accomodating. The abuse, the four letter words, the aggression thrown at us was amazing. Sweet, beautifully
spoken, foul mouthed children, dinghy experts in the making. Dinghy sailors, perfect manners, hmmmmmmm?

Was a classic never to be forgotten.

RLymYC?

 

[doris]

RLymYC?

Probably. Having met a fair few of the parents that would make sense. Lym Town not like that.

 

[Elessar]

A few years ago going up the Lymington River at about 17.30 on a lovely summers evening we were confronted by the opi fleet. Nippers 7/8 years olds swarming all over the river. We slowed down as much as possible and crept up trying our best to be accomodating. The abuse, the four letter words, the aggression thrown at us was amazing. Sweet, beautifully
spoken, foul mouthed children, dinghy experts in the making. Dinghy sailors, perfect manners, hmmmmmmm?

Was a classic never to be forgotten.

quite, they always know "motor gives way to sail" but never the narrow channel or even the overtaking rules.

 

[Tranona]

What affects me, as I have said from my first post, is when Sunsail boats crash into mine, either in attempts to lay alongside or just general manouvering; skippered or chartered, the same rude arrogance applies, as if ' anything without Sunsail written on it must be a fender '...

It would really help move this debate on if you could advise PRECISELY how many times a Sunsail boat has crashed into yours.

Where, when, what damage resulted, name of other boat and skipper plus what action you took to recover your losses.

Failure to do this invalidates all your contributions.

 

[Twister_Ken]

For a start, a sailor should always be thinking in terms of engine failure, exactly why a good pilot keeps an eye out for handy fields !

Fields in short supply that will take a loaded 747, especially over an ocean.

Whilst agreeing that dinghy sailing is a good intro, it's not the only one, and in a sense sailing a cruising boat is much more about management, met, nav, seamanship, etc than about boat handling and wind awareness. Very few dinghy sailors are going to step onto a cruiser and know when to reef, how to anchor safely, how to keep batteries in good condition, how to spring off a berth, how to come out from an inside berth of a raft-up, how to cross a TSS, etc.

 

[dom]

I don't think there's been a single poster who has said dinghy sailing isn't good experience. It's just the fact it isn't really relevant to this thread.

To be honest I've lost track of what this thread is about! But with regards to the prong dealing with transferring dinghy experience to a marina, then yes I think it helps. Sailing a dinghy teaches one basic skills like judging the effects of windage, momentum, pivot points, ferry gliding, etc. In addition one can learn all of this without risking expensive damage or injury.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but are modem mobos with twin screws, front and possibly stern thrusters not a doddle to handle in a marina? I would not have thought that smallish sailboats with a bow thruster are that much harder. Altogether trickier are bigger sail boats without thrusters. But even here, is one not better off learning these skills first in say a rib, then in a 20 footer and only then onto a bigger boat?

By way of example when my son was ten or so he could competently handle a dinghy. I then put him in the tender which he confidently zoomed around in before ballsing up close quarter maneuvers like coming alongside the boarding platform! Once he got the hang of the outboard bit he had a go driving the club's single screw rudder steered launch; yet more ballsed up maneuvers when practicing coming alongside an old tug. Next he learnt that shouting at his younger sister would render him crewless and open him up to endless ribbing in the bar later .

Cost to me in terms of stress and damage:0 Gain to him in terms of experience: something positive. I'm not sure what I'm missing and why all of this requires a pistols at dawn resolution

 

[jimmyk]

There are several points going on here, if I can get serious and not be distracted !

Speaking as an outsider but used to large/er companies;

If I found myself in charge of such a business as Sunsail, I'd be very very p'd off if the people didn't tell me of image problems, and I might think my own image might be deterring people from telling me, so check that first and if necessary be friendly with the workforce, hopefully in a genuine way.

Have mass audiences with skippers, then pontoon crews, then all combined.

Make the effort to speak to them all separately - NOT hauled in ' Mr Burns and his hounds require your presence '

Have a stiff talking to what is very probably called ' Human Resources ' ( I always thought why not just say ' meat based assets ' ) and weed out a few, leaving or hiring anyone who treats people as humans, as they'll probably treat customers that way too.

Give the strong message that everyone under that corporate flag is a representative to the world and should be accordingly polite, professional and helpful.

That includes students and charterers, they should be made to feel like representatives of a great outfit.

In a small way when I did a 1 week refresher then 1 week YM offshore course with Solent School of Yachting that is exactly how I felt, one of a close knit team and by the end of week 1 we would have had a good team for a Fastnet - my thoughts, not a suggestion then.

Great skippers I was lucky to meet, but anyone can try to instill an ethos which is ' we are the best, we do not go across cockpits, we know how to belay, we know not to leave lines heaped on a pontoon,

We do not shout and stomp across boats and we ask nicely, we treat other people's treasured boats as we would treat our --- whatever it is they treasure...

Here endeth

Para 1

+1. I work in a school. When the kids are on a visit. We impress very strongly that they represent the whole school. Any poor behaviour by one makes us all look bad.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't think there's been a single poster who has said dinghy sailing isn't good experience. It's just the fact it isn't really relevant to this thread.

I've long given up trying to find an overall theme to this, or indeed any, thread. On the whole I think dinghy sailors are generally better at working out what's going on around them, because they can and must respond so quickly to changes. Exectly the same would apply to experienced racers in yachts, and since Sunsail's paid skippers spend much of their lives racing with inexperienced crew, I'd expect them to be jolly good at it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

And even if that is true, if the sunsail yacht can do that if affects you how?

Precisely.