Sunsail in the Solent

[lpdsn]

For a start, a sailor should always be thinking in terms of engine failure, exactly why a good pilot keeps an eye out for handy fields !

Engine handling, and handling under engine - different things - might be best initated to on rescue boats as a dinghy sailor taking a turn ? Works at our club.

As for a dinghy sailor being unable to handle large cruisers...

On my YM offshore course, we had a race around some buoys for fun in the Gib Sea 42, singlehanded on a stopwatch; I blush to say I beat even the instructor by a wide margin, by handling the boat like a dinghy.

On the exam I had been warned that if I let the examiner know I usually sailed with just my then wife, he's make me do the MOB singlehanded; I did let him know, partly as I thought it a fair test, partly because I was happier without my nice but clueless fellow students !

I was by far fastest back to the ' casualty ', and BTW my fellow students all passed, good at cruiser sailing.

Afterwards the instructor and examiner agreed that my dinghy experience made the difference.

Let me hasten to say I am no hotshot, someone like Flaming would probably run rings round me, especially re tactics; but don't anyone tell me a background in dinghies isn't jolly handy for a sailor.

I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with you. This is a thread about Sunsail skippers being unable to park a 40 footer properly under engine.

I'm not trying in the least to tell you dinghy sailing experience isn't handy, but it isn't relevant to handling the said 40 footers under engine.

 

[dom]

No big deal. You just have to think ahead more and be better prepared. All the bad habits you see smaller boats getting away with are a liability. If you make a mistake you often can't correct it with brute force, so you have to be more precise. I still think it would be an eye opener for those small boat owners criticising the Sunsail skippers.

Correcting with brute force is of course one option that no longer exists meaning that bow-thrusterless big boats need more fun and games with springs and stuff. Another problem with large boats in a marina is that the fairways, locks, etc are relatively much smaller in comparison to its size. This combination effectively renders some sections of the marina into no-go areas, e.g. blind alleys entered into the wind, ...so yes you're right, one really does need to know about this type of thing in advance!

 

[prv]

don't anyone tell me a background in dinghies isn't jolly handy for a sailor.

...but has sweet FA to do with "we do not go across cockpits, we know how to belay, we know not to leave lines heaped on a pontoon, we do not shout and stomp across boats and we ask nicely"

You've got your stock rants crossed, you somehow jumped from one to the other in the middle of the thread.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

No big deal. You just have to think ahead more and be better prepared. All the bad habits you see smaller boats getting away with are a liability. If you make a mistake you often can't correct it with brute force, so you have to be more precise. I still think it would be an eye opener for those small boat owners criticising the Sunsail skippers.

That is a rather foolish thing to say, as I've owned a 30 footer, regularly crewed on 34's, did my ym offshore in a 42 and was professionally employed to handle a 38metre barge...

 

[benjenbav]

For a start, a sailor should always be thinking in terms of engine failure, exactly why a good pilot keeps an eye out for handy fields !

Engine handling, and handling under engine - different things - might be best initated to on rescue boats as a dinghy sailor taking a turn ? Works at our club.

As for a dinghy sailor being unable to handle large cruisers...

On my YM offshore course, we had a race around some buoys for fun in the Gib Sea 42, singlehanded on a stopwatch; I blush to say I beat even the instructor by a wide margin, by handling the boat like a dinghy.

On the exam I had been warned that if I let the examiner know I usually sailed with just my then wife, he's make me do the MOB singlehanded; I did let him know, partly as I thought it a fair test, partly because I was happier without my nice but clueless fellow students !

I was by far fastest back to the ' casualty ', and BTW my fellow students all passed, good at cruiser sailing.

Afterwards the instructor and examiner agreed that my dinghy experience made the difference.

Let me hasten to say I am no hotshot, someone like Flaming would probably run rings round me, especially re tactics; but don't anyone tell me a background in dinghies isn't jolly handy for a sailor.

This post reminded me that after years and years of racing dinghies my initial experience of cruising yachts was of finding the handling straightforward but realising that I had huge gaps in terms of seamanship: passage planning, navigation for example.

Many years on I found myself an unwilling participant in a corporate round-the-cans event on Sunsail yachts. I was eventually pressed into being the starting helmsman for a race. Well, I'd raced plenty of dinghies and moreover it was a rental so to say I wasn't bold in my tactics would be to deny that we sailed so close in that the guys on the foredeck were able to collect ice creams from the beach.

Anyway, long and short was that I dragged the ship to the upwind mark with a healthy lead...only to drop the spinnaker overboard as we turned and after a few minutes of being cursed by the other competitors a laconic voice from the Castle came over the vhf to say: "Yacht X, could you confirm if you are racing. We're not really sure".

That said, my personal experience of Sunsail has not been at all negative. I have never found their skippers to be unpleasant. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[Seajet]

...but has sweet FA to do with "we do not go across cockpits, we know how to belay, we know not to leave lines heaped on a pontoon, we do not shout and stomp across boats and we ask nicely"

You've got your stock rants crossed, you somehow jumped from one to the other in the middle of the thread.

Pete

No I haven't, inate politeness does 80%, a good skipper quietly, nonchalantly describes ' the rules '.

If you have a crew of Subaru driving Crawley types, your only hope is a Big Gun to instill manners, or in a perfect world put them ashore to run amok at Bucklers Hard then gently cast off and be on your way...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Dinghy sailing teaches nothing about seamanship, just sail handling which is really not difficult to do in a basic sense (though a lifetime to master I know).

What do you define as "seamanship"? Dinghy sailors may not spend their time harumphing about flag etiquette (and I'm not suggesting that you do either) but they do generally learn boat handling, knots and rules of the road. As far as boat handling goes, most of them are better than most yachties, because you can get away with murder in a relatively big, relatively slow boat. And, of course, dinghy sailors don't generally rely on an engine for all the tricky bits ...

I would much rather teach someone who could sail a dinghy to sail a yacht than vice versa.

 

[lpdsn]

That is a rather foolish thing to say, as I've owned a 30 footer, regularly crewed on 34's, did my ym offshore in a 42 and was professionally employed to handle a 38metre barge...

Ah, then you'll be chomping at the bit to demonstrate your expertise in the competition I suggested earlier.

 

[Seajet]

Eh ? Might have missed that post, please direct me to it.

 

[Elessar]

What do you define as "seamanship"? Dinghy sailors may not spend their time harumphing about flag etiquette (and I'm not suggesting that you do either) but they do generally learn boat handling, knots and rules of the road. As far as boat handling goes, most of them are better than most yachties, because you can get away with murder in a relatively big, relatively slow boat. And, of course, dinghy sailors don't generally rely on an engine for all the tricky bits ...

I would much rather teach someone who could sail a dinghy to sail a yacht than vice versa.

I dont need to defline it. Enough people here knew what I meant to spark a good debate. And i dont neccessarily agree with your last sentence, but there we go its un proveable either way.

 

[Seajet]

Yes it's easily proveable, I have a chum's Osprey dinghy available in Chicester Harbour - might need a few weeks to get the cruisers lifted afloat out of the way - but you're welcome to come and show me how you know best, PM me and we'll make a date.

Looking forward to being shown how it's done...

 

[Elessar]

Yes it's easily proveable, I have a chum's Osprey dinghy available in Chicester Harbour - might need a few weeks to get the cruisers lifted afloat out of the way - but you're welcome to come and show me how you know best, PM me and we'll make a date.

Looking forward to being shown how it's done...

Err proving what? I started in dinghies. Raced them for years, frostbite series and all. Did quite a bit of windsurfing too. That teaches you about the wind, as much as dinghies do if not more so. And you may prove you are a better dinghy sailor than me. So what, it does not prove the thesis that dinghy sailing should be a mandatory training route to larger boats. And btw, rescue boats aside, i didn't set foot on a mobo for 20 years after I started sailing.

 

[Seajet]

If all that taught you is about the wind as you put it, no wonder you have a mobo; how about sensitivity and trim, and pure sensation / feelings ?

So you are bottling out of sailing the Osprey then ?

Probably a wise move, just keep an eye on your coolant temperatures...

 

[Elessar]

If all that taught you is about the wind as you put it, no wonder you have a mobo; how about sensitivity and trim, and pure sensation / feelings ?

So you are bottling out of sailing the Osprey then ?

Probably a wise move, just keep an eye on your coolant temperatures...

Nope i raced dinghies and cruisers on and off for over 20 years and never considered sensitivity and trim........

Just for the record, if the know it all ex dinghy guy trimmed his sails perfectly, how would that affect you?

If he tromped over your foredeck, or cut across you when you a motoring down a narrow channel yelling "motor gives way to sail", or swung into you at anchor then it would clearly affect you.
Which of these are learned in dinghies?

Edit ps i forgot to say i still have a dinghy and I love dinghy sailing. Most great sailors used to sail dinghies. I just disagree that it is a prerequisite.

 

[PeteCooper]

Yet another unpleasant thread involving ... no I can't say that - I'd get banned. Can anybody explain, in simple terms as I don't claim to be clever, how being a good dinghy sailor helps when parking a yacht under engine?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I dont need to defline it.

Of course you don't need to, but it's generally a good idea to explain how you are using very general terms. The subsequent debate, you'll note, has mainly been about what you meant and not whether you were right.

 

[lpdsn]

Eh ? Might have missed that post, please direct me to it.

#49

I'm willing to propose an exemption if you think you're too experienced to qualify.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yet another unpleasant thread involving ... no I can't say that - I'd get banned. Can anybody explain, in simple terms as I don't claim to be clever, how being a good dinghy sailor helps when parking a yacht under engine?

In a marina it doesn't. However, good dinghy sailors are probably less likely to need the engine for anchoring, mooring and departing.

 

[lpdsn]

In a marina it doesn't. However, good dinghy sailors are probably less likely to need the engine for anchoring, mooring and departing.

I don't think there's been a single poster who has said dinghy sailing isn't good experience. It's just the fact it isn't really relevant to this thread.

 

[Elessar]

In a marina it doesn't. However, good dinghy sailors are probably less likely to need the engine for anchoring, mooring and departing.

And even if that is true, if the sunsail yacht can do that if affects you how?