sailorman
Well-Known Member
would the lost deposit be shared or would the skipper expect those who cocked-up pay
Sunsail in the Solent
- Thread starter brianhumber
- Start date
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
I guess it depends what the crew agreed beforehand and whether they stick to it.
The worst I had was that someone damaged the saloon table (on a very nice boat) and no one would admit it. Charter company charged me for the repair at cost (£50) and it came out of my pocket. I should've got the contact details of the repairer as it was a very professional job for only £50 - I've got some jobs on my own boat that I'd happily put their way.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
That is one thing i hadnt thought about if a group of M8s go sailing on charter, it could get expensive
RobbieW
Well-Known Member
To make that fair and representative, each skipper will have a crew of 6. Each crew will come from the same company so may know each other but may never have been on a yacht before and have not previously met the skipper. Skippers have about an hour to brief and train the crew before starting.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Should there also be a requirement that each member of the crew has consumed 4 units of alcohol in the previous hour?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
i think the dinghy sailor that gets in a cruiser and thinks he knows everything is the WAFI version of a first boat mobo driver who thinks it's a car because it has a wheel. And both categories are the real menaces!
Dinghy sailing teaches nothing about seamanship, just sail handling which is really not difficult to do in a basic sense (though a lifetime to master I know). Dinghy sailing may be the most affordable way to develop the love of sailing, but it really isn't that necessary or even that relevant to sailing big boats IMO.
Back to the original point. There are loads of sunsail boats. A minority will behave badly, either in the way they are handled or in their shoreside etiquette, but as there are so many of them and they are out so often that makes quite a few incidents that we will recall. We are bound to tar them all with the same brush I guess.
Concerto
Well-Known Member
This thread shows a Sunsail boat undergoing repair.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?425208-boat-repair
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?425208-boat-repair
auditdata
Well-Known Member
I am Spartacus
As a novice sailior I went on the Sunsail NHS regatta 25 years ago and went every year for 20 years. I had a fantastic social time and loved the close quarter sailing. It gave me the sailing bug. Over the time I took my family sailing in the med and went on various courses in the UK. What I know is this. Every time we entered the corporate regatta with Sunsail we had a training day before hand with a Sunsail Skipper. They were without exception highly competent and had some of the best man management skills I have ever seen.There were often 50 Sunsail boats in our regatta and with a crew of 7 that meant 350 often Alpha males and lately some Alpha females! Yes there were some prats as we heard on the radio once “I appear to have broken my spinnaker pole do you mind awfully sending a new one out in the rib” but out of our regular hospital team, one has gone on to sail around the world, one has done an atlantic circuit, one is a professional skipper and I have ended up crossing the pond in my own boat. So next time you hear yourself chastising a Sunsail skipper, professional or not remember how they are significantly contributing to our sport and pastime.
As a novice sailior I went on the Sunsail NHS regatta 25 years ago and went every year for 20 years. I had a fantastic social time and loved the close quarter sailing. It gave me the sailing bug. Over the time I took my family sailing in the med and went on various courses in the UK. What I know is this. Every time we entered the corporate regatta with Sunsail we had a training day before hand with a Sunsail Skipper. They were without exception highly competent and had some of the best man management skills I have ever seen.There were often 50 Sunsail boats in our regatta and with a crew of 7 that meant 350 often Alpha males and lately some Alpha females! Yes there were some prats as we heard on the radio once “I appear to have broken my spinnaker pole do you mind awfully sending a new one out in the rib” but out of our regular hospital team, one has gone on to sail around the world, one has done an atlantic circuit, one is a professional skipper and I have ended up crossing the pond in my own boat. So next time you hear yourself chastising a Sunsail skipper, professional or not remember how they are significantly contributing to our sport and pastime.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That's you crossed off Seajet's Christams card list then.
Seajet
...
Tranona,
for once we agree on something !
If one hasn't learned - literally by the seat of the pants - how boats respond to wind, sail trim and weight trim, one is at a distinct disadvantage.
I'm not talking about racing, just cruising efficiently, shorter passage times, and knowing how a boat handles.
Even the raciest yachts are forgiving compared to a racing dinghy, which will summarily dunk you no matter what trendy sunglasses you're wearing.
I could take my Osprey dinghy within a couple of inches to a buoy then tack, knowing she would respond with crystal precision.
She also told me in no uncertain terms when I got it wrong.
You don't get that with a yacht, no matter how many stripes, X's or i's one puts on the side.
Starting with cruisers is like a racing driver starting on lorries.
for once we agree on something !
If one hasn't learned - literally by the seat of the pants - how boats respond to wind, sail trim and weight trim, one is at a distinct disadvantage.
I'm not talking about racing, just cruising efficiently, shorter passage times, and knowing how a boat handles.
Even the raciest yachts are forgiving compared to a racing dinghy, which will summarily dunk you no matter what trendy sunglasses you're wearing.
I could take my Osprey dinghy within a couple of inches to a buoy then tack, knowing she would respond with crystal precision.
She also told me in no uncertain terms when I got it wrong.
You don't get that with a yacht, no matter how many stripes, X's or i's one puts on the side.
Starting with cruisers is like a racing driver starting on lorries.
doris
Well-Known Member
Jim Clark, arguably the greatest racing driver of all time, started on tractors. QED
Seajet
...
Re Jim Clark,
we wept when he died.
I've seen Derek Bell racing a lawnmower at cut-throat competition level, so what ?
Unless one has a born instinct - the sort of thing which separates Test Pilots from normal, no doubt very good, Service Pilots - one needs training.
And the best training possible for a sailor is beginning in dinghies, anyone denying that would just be trying to justify their shortcomings in sailing experience.
Point me to one famously good sailor who didn't begin in dinghies ?
we wept when he died.
I've seen Derek Bell racing a lawnmower at cut-throat competition level, so what ?
Unless one has a born instinct - the sort of thing which separates Test Pilots from normal, no doubt very good, Service Pilots - one needs training.
And the best training possible for a sailor is beginning in dinghies, anyone denying that would just be trying to justify their shortcomings in sailing experience.
Point me to one famously good sailor who didn't begin in dinghies ?
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Francis Drake.
prv
Well-Known Member
How will starting out in dinghies train someone not to raft badly outside another yacht, tramp through its cockpit, hold noisy parties late at night, fend off using guardrails, twang the shrouds, and do all the other obnoxious things that Sunsail boats are accused of doing in port?
If anything, hot-headed racing dinghy fleets seem rather closer to the Sunsail mentality than a ploddy old Centaur does.
Pete
Resolution
Well-Known Member
That is a pretty narrow point of view. There is no logical reason why one should not start, learn, improve and become skilled in a boat of any size. Every boat has its own handling characteristics, differing degrees of responsiveness may require different sensitivity in getting the best out of them. Lighten up and accept that these days lots of sailors are starting in mid-size modern cruisers and some will undoubtedly become fine yachtsmen and women.
Seajet
...
Pete,
for a start, who said anything about dinghy racing ?
I always had fast dinghies, Scorpion, Dart 18, Osprey, Contender, but I never joined in many races, except over winter when it seemed prudent to have a rescue boat around, those were the days of home-made wetsuits, remember them ?
I've always wanted to just do my own thing; but fast and efficiently.
We have a bit of a split thread here; is dinghy sailing a good training, and are the average Sunsail skipper & crews knobs ?
Taking the latter for granted at least for a moment, you cannot deny a dinghy requires faster reflexes, and gives much more instant feedback; ergo, better trainer.
As for manners and etiquette, I agree I have met some dinghy racers who made me wish I had a handy Kalashnikov, but they were relatively few; and their boorish behaviour was on land, I have to admit even the Jamie's with highlights in their hair were rather good sailors.
Unlike Kevin the company manager who buys a Bavaria 35'+ as first boat and creates enough engine shuffling and collisions to make Russian satellites perk up to a probable missile launch, and that's before he puts the sails up, if he ever does.
for a start, who said anything about dinghy racing ?
I always had fast dinghies, Scorpion, Dart 18, Osprey, Contender, but I never joined in many races, except over winter when it seemed prudent to have a rescue boat around, those were the days of home-made wetsuits, remember them ?
I've always wanted to just do my own thing; but fast and efficiently.
We have a bit of a split thread here; is dinghy sailing a good training, and are the average Sunsail skipper & crews knobs ?
Taking the latter for granted at least for a moment, you cannot deny a dinghy requires faster reflexes, and gives much more instant feedback; ergo, better trainer.
As for manners and etiquette, I agree I have met some dinghy racers who made me wish I had a handy Kalashnikov, but they were relatively few; and their boorish behaviour was on land, I have to admit even the Jamie's with highlights in their hair were rather good sailors.
Unlike Kevin the company manager who buys a Bavaria 35'+ as first boat and creates enough engine shuffling and collisions to make Russian satellites perk up to a probable missile launch, and that's before he puts the sails up, if he ever does.
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lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Seajet, you are confusing handling under sail with boat handling in confined spaces under engine. Two completely different skills.
Dinghy sailing/racing is good for the former, but not a comprehensive preparation. I certainly find it necessary to carefully brief and monitor experienced dinghy racers the first few times they go big boat racing.
Dinghy sailing is no preparation for the latter. And as I jokingly tried to highlight last night, experience handling a 25 foot cruising boat in a marina is only limited training for handling a 40 or 50-odd foot boat under the same circumstances.
dom
Well-Known Member
Good boat handling in different wind and sea conditions takes a long time to learn and dinghies are a fantastic way to acquire these skills - in particular heavy weather and close quarter maneuvering skills.
To a point I agree that boat handling in confined spaces under engine is different, but is maneuvering a 50 footer really that big a deal? Big boats are after all basically just scaled up versions of little boats, so apart from the weight element I'm not sure they are that much harder to handle in confined spaces than little ones.
Seajet
...
For a start, a sailor should always be thinking in terms of engine failure, exactly why a good pilot keeps an eye out for handy fields !
Engine handling, and handling under engine - different things - might be best initated to on rescue boats as a dinghy sailor taking a turn ? Works at our club.
As for a dinghy sailor being unable to handle large cruisers...
On my YM offshore course, we had a race around some buoys for fun in the Gib Sea 42, singlehanded on a stopwatch; I blush to say I beat even the instructor by a wide margin, by handling the boat like a dinghy.
On the exam I had been warned that if I let the examiner know I usually sailed with just my then wife, he's make me do the MOB singlehanded; I did let him know, partly as I thought it a fair test, partly because I was happier without my nice but clueless fellow students !
I was by far fastest back to the ' casualty ', and BTW my fellow students all passed, good at cruiser sailing.
Afterwards the instructor and examiner agreed that my dinghy experience made the difference.
Let me hasten to say I am no hotshot, someone like Flaming would probably run rings round me, especially re tactics; but don't anyone tell me a background in dinghies isn't jolly handy for a sailor.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
No big deal. You just have to think ahead more and be better prepared. All the bad habits you see smaller boats getting away with are a liability. If you make a mistake you often can't correct it with brute force, so you have to be more precise. I still think it would be an eye opener for those small boat owners criticising the Sunsail skippers.
