Sunken yacht in Solent

Little Tern said:
Do they do that then?
I'm agog to hear examples of insurance companies wriggling out of claims because there was no anchor ball! Please tell all! How many per year, do you reckon?
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This is a silly post.

What makes you think I have any access to marine insurance companies past claims and rejections?

However, one doesn’t need access to know a simple truth about insurance and claims. I assume from your response you’ve never had any dealings with insurance companies who wriggle out of claims? Fortunately I’ve only ever had to make a couple of insurance claims in my life. The only one for a boat we owned, was against the harbour authorities in Saint Peter Port who damaged our boat when moving it while we were away in the UK. A cut and dried case that was all settled very quickly and amicably. However, I know that this isn’t always the case. I’m currently in touch with a Loss Adjuster over damage from a waterleak in our house. I could go into long details about all the things that are excluded from our claim with a company who are generally recognised to offer one of the better household policies in the UK.

If you think for one moment that an insurance company wouldn’t want to know that you’re flying the correct day shapes when you’re anchored and someone ran into you, to put it bluntly you’re a fool. Just because you think it’s very unlikely doesn’t mean it can’t happen. And it’s such a simple thing to do and helps other seafarers, why in earth wouldn’t you put an anchor ball up as demanded by law.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I’m amazed that the requirement to show an anchor ball when at anchor causes so much animosity.
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Well, that's an interesting observation. And yes, I agree that some animosity is being shown in this thread.

Let's look for some examples...
john_morris_uk said:
... being so bloody minded
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john_morris_uk said:
...to put it bluntly you’re a fool.
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Yes, quite a bit of animus there, I think!

Now I love a bit of pedantic rule following myself, but I find it hard to imagine the actual change in risk, when stopping for 30 minute lunch, in good visibility, in a quiet creek that is a recognised anchorage, among other anchored boats, depending on whether or not you raise a 30cm black ball.

Now, maybe we should discuss something of greater import, such as the exact time one must drop the ensign in the evening.
 
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I always hoist anchor ball at anchor, and anchor light if anchoring overnight. Seems silly not to.

But motoring cone - never. On my previous boat I had one but rarely motorsailed, and sold it with the boat. On my current boat I do motorsail sometimes but usually singlehanded, and I decided that it was too risky to go forward to hoist singlehanded as I really don’t trust my tillerpilot. Maybe when I fix the tillerpilot I’ll celebrate by knocking up a plywood cone.

They aren’t much used where I sail. The only time I’ve even seen a cone in use was looking from the cliffs across Jack Sound I spotted a yacht with one hoisted.
 
Little Tern said:
Well, that's an interesting observation. And yes, I agree that some animosity is being shown in this thread.

Let's look for some examples...


Yes, quite a bit of animus there, I think!

Now I love a bit of pedantic rule following myself, but I find it hard to imagine the actual change in risk, when stopping for 30 minute lunch, in good visibility, in a quiet creek that is a recognised anchorage, among other anchored boats, depending on whether or not you raise a 30cm black ball.

Now, maybe we should discuss something of greater import, such as the exact time one must drop the ensign in the evening.
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No animus at all. I’ll leave others to judge what a sensible approach to the anchor ball malarkey is.
 
Little Tern said:
Well, that's an interesting observation. And yes, I agree that some animosity is being shown in this thread.

Let's look for some examples...


Yes, quite a bit of animus there, I think!

Now I love a bit of pedantic rule following myself, but I find it hard to imagine the actual change in risk, when stopping for 30 minute lunch, in good visibility, in a quiet creek that is a recognised anchorage, among other anchored boats, depending on whether or not you raise a 30cm black ball.
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I'd agree. People have got this way out of perspective, and it clearly isn't based on evidence.

The whole "Invalidates you insurance" argument is just logical fallacy bingo. Appeal to Fear, Circular Reasoning and False Clause Fallacy all in one massive insult to peoples intelligence.

Then evidence is requested and we get straight into argumentum ad passiones.
 
Mark-1 said:
I'd agree. People have got this way out of perspective, and it clearly isn't based on evidence.

The whole "Invalidates you insurance" argument is just logical fallacy bingo. Appeal to Fear, Circular Reasoning and False Clause Fallacy all in one massive insult to peoples intelligence.

Then evidence is requested and we get straight into argumentum ad passiones.
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Have you called your insurance company to ask?

Probably not, eh?
 
chriss999 said:
Anchor ball is dead easy, and is required by colregs, so why not just do it? Unless maybe just stopping for a cup of tea.
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How many anchored boats have you collided with because they weren't showing a day shape? 20? 50? 200? Round it to nearest 5 if it makes it easier to remember.

Yes there's no harm in showing the right day shape, but can we get a grip about how important it is. Very few Mobos even carry one. Ships do, but.yoiu have to look hard to find them. The chain is more distinctive than the ball.
 
Mark-1 said:
How many anchored boats have you collided with because they weren't showing a day shape? 20? 50? 200? Round it to nearest 5if it makes it easier to remember

Yes there's no harm in showing the right day shape, but can we get a grip about how important it is. Very few Mobos even carry one. Ships.do, but.yoiu have to look.hard to find them. The chain is more distinctive than the ball.
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Really?? I am privileged to get to drive a few different motorboats. Both privately owned ones and school ones. So far, every boat I’ve been on has had an anchor ball.

I’ve never collided with an anchored yacht. So what? Several times I’ve cursed long and loud when coming into an anchorage in the dark and nearly running into an anchored boat showing no lights. Once was coming to anchor after an Atlantic crossing. (Once it got light I saw that they didn’t have shapes up either!)

Why don’t you anchor your boat without showing correct shape and lights and ask your insurance company if they’re happy?
 
capnsensible said:
Tomorrow I'm not gonna be bothered to stop at traffic lights and I'm gonna go the wrong way on roundabouts.

Oh wait a minute, I've changed my mind, I'm gonna conform to the rules that keep us all safe, not be bone idle and not whine pointlessly.

Wouldn't be scuttlebutt though without it though.
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Really?

You're equating stopping for a cuppa, in a known anchorage, among other anchored boats, in a dead end creek, without proudly raising your black ball.... with running red lights! Why not go the whole hog and equate it with mass murder? It's all rule breaking isn't it?

Arguing by false equivalence is just another logical fallacy.

So far, the only actual argument I've seen is "roolz is roolz". Unless you want to count the hysterical "it will invalidate your insurance!".

Nobody is saying that anchor balls must never be hoisted. Just that some people, in some circumstances, don't feel they actually improve safety.
 
Little Tern said:
Really?

You're equating stopping for a cuppa, in a known anchorage, among other anchored boats, in a dead end creek, without proudly raising your black ball.... with running red lights!
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....and if you do run a red light, guess what. Your insurance still covers you!
 
Little Tern said:
Really?

You're equating stopping for a cuppa, in a known anchorage, among other anchored boats, in a dead end creek, without proudly raising your black ball.... with running red lights! Why not go the whole hog and equate it with mass murder? It's all rule breaking isn't it?

Arguing by false equivalence is just another logical fallacy.

So far, the only actual argument I've seen is "roolz is roolz". Unless you want to count the hysterical "it will invalidate your insurance!".

Nobody is saying that anchor balls must never be hoisted. Just that some people, in some circumstances, don't feel they actually improve safety.
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What you’re saying now might be true.

Sadly some people earlier in the thread either admitted or implied that they never bother to put up an anchor ball. If you choose not to bother for a short stop so what. That’s not what was being discussed.

We anchor 99% of the time. The anchor ball gets dropped and stays attached to its halyard and lashed to the mast. It’s seconds very few to untie it and pull on the halyard to put it up again in the fore triangle.
 
Little Tern said:
Nobody is saying that anchor balls must never be hoisted. Just that some people, in some circumstances, don't feel they actually improve safety.
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Harmless, but not always *that* useful.

Keeping a 24 hour anchor watch would be far more useful. Few people bother and nobody frets about it.
 
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