Sunken lobster pot lines strike again

We sailed past both the Deben, very early on Sunday morning, and past Walton on Monday. We saw three badly marked fishing buoys off the Deben - they had dark coloured floats of some kind. The ones we saw off Walton were well marked with poles and red or black flags, and were concentrated in a small area, so we're very easy to avoid. Perhaps the message has got through to the culprit!
 
A few years ago we chartered a Thames barge and picked one up under sail on the rudder, we only noticed when we saw the disturbance astern when preparing to come into the Deben. We finally cleared it with me hung over the stern by the ankles with a boat hook. That taught me that they can snag anything, even on a flat bottom. What I can't understand is the thinking behind using an almost invisible marker and risking losing the pot.
 
It was an absolute minefield of badly marked pots between Landguard and the Deben yesterday. Worse was that most of them were trailing a length of thick rope
 
Leighb said:
Having been the victim of a pot line in my previous boat - detailed in this post http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?207012-Fouled-sterngear - I am still firmly of the opinion that if you are disabled with rope around the prop, and unable to sail if a sailing vessel, then it is appropriate to call for help. It need not be a Mayday unless other circumstances make that necessary but a call on 67 to the CG seems wise. If conditions were fairly calm then certainly try and snag the line with a boathook and cut it but you may not be able to reach it. Going over the side to me is a total No-No, but maybe when I was about 50 years younger ???
In our case the Lifeboat crew in their auxiliary RIB armed with a long fearsome bladed scythe type weapon were still unable to reach and cut the line which anchored us firmly to the seabed, so the Lifeboat had to tow us free.
Incidentally I was talking to the coxswain a few days later when I returned to Harwich LB station to thank them appropriately and asked if the fisherman would have lost his gear. He said that he would have it marked on his GPS and would recover it pretty easily with a grapnel, so all they have at stake is a length of line and some floats and weights and the "buoy" no great financial incentive to mark their gear more clearly.
My incident was at night and I am not sure we could have seen any sort of float but maybe a dayglo flag just might have shown up?
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Perhaps legislation is the only way Click here to support this petition -> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200001/signatures/new
 
I have signed, and added link to my Facebook. Try to share with others to get the required number of votes
 
Out of interest is the practice of putting down pots and leaving markers/ropes on the surface a fairly recent development in fishing practice or is it as I suspect something that has been going on for hundreds of years?

If this is the case is it really ethical or even fair to bring about change simply because of these new fangled propeller things, or the inability of the modern sailor to deal with snagging something? I appreciate that us leisure sailors are now probably in a significant majority over those that seek to make their living from the sea but should it not be the case that we adapt to the circumstances we find rather than seeking to change them to suit us?
 
Signed.
I have no evidence but wonder if correctly marked pots are those used by professional fishermen and, generally speaking, the pots marked with black 5ltr oil containers tend to be those placed by 'amateur' fishermen. What do the panel think?
 
I've always suspected that fishermen don't want their pots to be easily visible because it would be easy for rivals to lift and empty them. The owner knows pretty much exactly where to look (gps must help these days) and the black oil container is the pick up buoy.
 
Triassic said:
Out of interest is the practice of putting down pots and leaving markers/ropes on the surface a fairly recent development in fishing practice or is it as I suspect something that has been going on for hundreds of years?

If this is the case is it really ethical or even fair to bring about change simply because of these new fangled propeller things, or the inability of the modern sailor to deal with snagging something? I appreciate that us leisure sailors are now probably in a significant majority over those that seek to make their living from the sea but should it not be the case that we adapt to the circumstances we find rather than seeking to change them to suit us?
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If the practice is old, does that make it right?

Are the things a danger?

Can anybody else secure objects to the seabed and leave an unlit and difficult to see marker? Such as an anchored boat at night with no lights? (Example in extreme, I know).

Or an inflatable racing mark? (more sensible example)

Can also understand fishermen not wanting their catch stolen. So ACTUAL answer is to catch and punish thieves and thence deter criminals. Our penal system is so great that I am sure this would work... just as it does in all other areas of crime...

So instead of actioning the the proper answer (because we live in a country where criminals get away with murder), we have to bend over backwards and create a work-around. (I wonder what happens in countries with better penal systems? Shame the Swiss is landlocked; don't they have harsh car laws that are upheld? - Could we sell our country to the Swiss? Save a lot of money by selling off all our military stuff. Not have to fight wars that are not of our making but decided upon by some spineless prime minister following an irrational knee jerk reaction by a president).

So answer would be for fishermen to make lobster pot markers either difficult for strangers to find, but easy for themselves to find (costly technology involved there) or make them visible but dangerous to handle by non-owners (manual booby traps, electric 'fence' turned off by owner's remote control, key fob, retina scan, facial recognition etc - "now that isn't allowed sir, you could injure the person who is trying to unlawfully take your hard earned goods").

So petition signed and the govt can pay me for my cheap device that will mark all buoys visible day and night and give them to lobster men free of charge (like a farm subsidy) and the govt can fix the police force and the justice system, create more bobbies afloat too in order to police the law against theft, fix the NHS, education, the road system - ha - and all will be well.

Yup, I'll look into strengthening the pintles holding my rudder on instead.
 
Rhoda Rose said:
Signed.
I have no evidence but wonder if correctly marked pots are those used by professional fishermen and, generally speaking, the pots marked with black 5ltr oil containers tend to be those placed by 'amateur' fishermen. What do the panel think?
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you are very close to being correct
 
Someone above asked what other countries do...
In the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, this year, we came across very many pot markers, and occasional nets. All were beautifully marked, with flags and sometimes radar reflectors. The nets had surface floats which made them quite easy to spot. Somewhere in Germany, they had a system of marking, explained on a poster, which had different types of flags displayed for pot markers (single flags) and surface nets (double flags). IN Denmark, we saw the fisherman raising groups of eel nets, which lie on the bottom, marked by a single flag either end of the group. In the NL, we heard a radio transmission on ch16 warning a nearby boat of a surface net. I don't know if there is more regulation in those countries, or more vocal yachtsmen, or what!
 
Ali-alshira said:
We sailed past both the Deben, very early on Sunday morning, and past Walton on Monday. We saw three badly marked fishing buoys off the Deben - they had dark coloured floats of some kind.
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740.jpg
 
Marmalade said:
I've always suspected that fishermen don't want their pots to be easily visible because it would be easy for rivals to lift and empty them. The owner knows pretty much exactly where to look (gps must help these days) and the black oil container is the pick up buoy.
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I don't , personally speaking, have any issue with well marked pots by either flag or can method, I have sailed past them successfully for years, I was caught out by unmarked buoy that was well submerged with lots of rope, we always have eyes on our course as having an older boat that whilst sails well wanders off once the tiller is left means you are generally always looking at your course and I love love love. Being on the helm. Wonder if lobster are seasonal and the lapse marking practices happen because no many boats out there in winter months so the issue dies off?
 
Ali-alshira said:
Someone above asked what other countries do...
In the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, this year, we came across very many pot markers, and occasional nets. All were beautifully marked, with flags and sometimes radar reflectors. The nets had surface floats which made them quite easy to spot. Somewhere in Germany, they had a system of marking, explained on a poster, which had different types of flags displayed for pot markers (single flags) and surface nets (double flags). IN Denmark, we saw the fisherman raising groups of eel nets, which lie on the bottom, marked by a single flag either end of the group. In the NL, we heard a radio transmission on ch16 warning a nearby boat of a surface net. I don't know if there is more regulation in those countries, or more vocal yachtsmen, or what!
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I cruised the French coast between Dunkerque and Fecamp this year, and every pot that I saw was very clearly marked. I saw none that were badly marked, at all. But then I suppose that I may have missed them!
 
Cantata said:
I cruised the French coast between Dunkerque and Fecamp this year, and every pot that I saw was very clearly marked. I saw none that were badly marked, at all. But then I suppose that I may have missed them!
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That is because they were badly marked. I am sorry to disagree, but I was there the same time as you & i saw quite a few containers without flags. in the stronger tides a few of these were virtually submerged.
Mainly in the area west of Dieppe for a distance of 4 miles. I saw a good dozen or more.
I remember it because I wanted to get fenders & sails ready for entering the harbour & being SH I nearly hit some
 
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One problem is some, mostly part timers these days, have a connection with fishing from fifty years ago. Sisal rope had to be kept up, so the mark would be four ten fathom spans with a ball on each, dahn on the end. Now they do the same with polyprop.
 
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