Sunken lobster pot lines strike again

[johnalison]

I guess I've been relatively lucky only having had one actual contact with a fishing pot and on that occasion we were going quite fast so all I felt was a bump and looked back just in time to see the float flying up into the air having been ripped clean off it's line. Having said that I've seen and dodged plenty so I know they are about and they definitely feature in my passage plans, especially when navigating at night.

I'm somewhat surprised at the suggestion the OP should have called it in and potentially had a tow from the RNLI. OK I can understand not everyone being confident enough to actually go over the side and deal with it themselves but surely this isn't a life and death situation in the circumstances described? Given the number of times yachts seem to get caught up on these things isn't it reasonable to expect skippers to have some kind of contingency plan in place and perhaps carry something appropriate on board to at least give them some options? (and I don't mean the radio). I suspect scuba gear is a bit of a big ask for most of us but how difficult would it be to have something like a decent machete or other large knife on board that has two holes pre drilled through the handle so that it can be bolted onto the end of an oar that has corresponding holes already in it? That would at least allow you to get free and stand a fighting chance of getting the vessel back under control and out of any imminent danger.

The OP achieved that but was left with a disabled boat. At my age, I have no intention of going over the side in conditions where assistance is possible, since the result would probably be a medical emergency and a mayday call. We do have a serrated bread knife bought with this use in mind, but our saildrive is too remote for easy access. The limit of my ability would be to inflate a dinghy and attempt to cut the line with the knife on a boathook, but I would feel no shame about calling for help.

 

[Seashoreman]

The OP achieved that but was left with a disabled boat. At my age, I have no intention of going over the side in conditions where assistance is possible, since the result would probably be a medical emergency and a mayday call. We do have a serrated bread knife bought with this use in mind, but our saildrive is too remote for easy access. The limit of my ability would be to inflate a dinghy and attempt to cut the line with the knife on a boathook, but I would feel no shame about calling for help.

I have to agree entirely with this. I sail through pot infested waters singlehanded most of the time. There is absolutely no way I am going over the side with a knife between my teeth. Last time I got a rope around the prop the boat had to be towed to the slip and needed considerable cutting to remove from the sail drive.
The unfortunate thing is I probably stand next to some of these fishermen in the pub but they don't take criticism kindly.

 

[Sailingsaves]

The unfortunate thing is I probably stand next to some of these fishermen in the pub but they don't take criticism kindly.

How do fishermen locate their pots? GPS? Memory?

Would a light be of any use to them?

If a small light could be made for about £1 or less that was rechargeable, water and night activated does anyone think fishermen would be interested? A simple line would tie it to the pick-up buoy. I have prototypes under test but no idea if there is a market.

 

[Triassic]

I have to agree entirely with this. I sail through pot infested waters singlehanded most of the time. There is absolutely no way I am going over the side with a knife between my teeth. Last time I got a rope around the prop the boat had to be towed to the slip and needed considerable cutting to remove from the sail drive.

So what is your fall back plan when you snag a pot then? It seems to me that fouling a line of some description is an entirely predictable and likely situation, a bit like getting a puncture on your car. When you get a puncture do you change it yourself, call the AA, or expect the emergency services to attend and tow you to a garage?

Actually using the puncture analogy is a good example of the changing expectations in society. There was a day when just about every driver was quite capable of changing a wheel, now it seems most don't think it all unusual to expect someone else to sort it out, and this is even being reflected by the manufactures who quite often don't even supply a spare wheel with the vehicle.

 

[Bru]

Diving under a boat in open water? Not flippin' likely!

If you want to use the changing the wheel analogy, it's about a good an idea as changing a wheel in the outside lane of a busy motorway (with the hard shoulder being akin to doing the job in a marina)

I have a basic mantra which is to never, ever, risk making a bad situation worse if there is a safer alternative and if you get something round the prop in coastal waters there is a very obviously safer option which is to call for help

(When it happened to us it was in Belgian waters and it cost me several hundred euros but better that than risk turning a minor mishap into a major emergency)

 

[Seashoreman]

Personally I have the mobile numbers of the Lifeboat Cox and Deputy. I have discussed the possibility of such a thing happening and would first try to poke about with a pole then have a chat on the phone. I tend to sail between two very keen and active Lifeboat stations and if I felt threatened I would give the Coastguard a call on the radio. I believe they would send someone to help.
I have only once had a rope around the prop as I am extremely vigilant about such things. This was in the river, picking up my mooring. Managed to hail a bloke from the boatyard who towed me onto mooring ( I was drifting towards other moorings and trying to do too many things at once).
They came and got boat later in the week and cut offending rope off for a modest fee.

 

[Leighb]

Having been the victim of a pot line in my previous boat - detailed in this post http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?207012-Fouled-sterngear - I am still firmly of the opinion that if you are disabled with rope around the prop, and unable to sail if a sailing vessel, then it is appropriate to call for help. It need not be a Mayday unless other circumstances make that necessary but a call on 67 to the CG seems wise. If conditions were fairly calm then certainly try and snag the line with a boathook and cut it but you may not be able to reach it. Going over the side to me is a total No-No, but maybe when I was about 50 years younger ???
In our case the Lifeboat crew in their auxiliary RIB armed with a long fearsome bladed scythe type weapon were still unable to reach and cut the line which anchored us firmly to the seabed, so the Lifeboat had to tow us free.
Incidentally I was talking to the coxswain a few days later when I returned to Harwich LB station to thank them appropriately and asked if the fisherman would have lost his gear. He said that he would have it marked on his GPS and would recover it pretty easily with a grapnel, so all they have at stake is a length of line and some floats and weights and the "buoy" no great financial incentive to mark their gear more clearly.
My incident was at night and I am not sure we could have seen any sort of float but maybe a dayglo flag just might have shown up?

 

[adamstjohn]

Diving under a boat in open water? Not flippin' likely!

If you want to use the changing the wheel analogy, it's about a good an idea as changing a wheel in the outside lane of a busy motorway (with the hard shoulder being akin to doing the job in a marina)

I reiterate that I wouldn't do it in anything other than flat calm. In open water you would have trouble getting help , no?
I did ask permission from the marina to go under the boat but this was refused as they do not allow(Which I suppose says something about it all eh) I did have an inflatable dingy to work from also and benefit from having my rudder positioned quite near to the transom, at no point was I afraid of entanglement and as I was not down deep enough always had air, my transom is quite pinched and this is what my head seemed to contact. I have had to do exactly the same in france but with rope around the prop, my prop is also very close to the stern and is relatively easy to get to, this one I had to do as we were drifting onto shore in no wind and nobody about for miles, I didn't have the time or sea room to wait. I am an overly cautious person by nature and would only do something I was reasonably sure about, I may not like it but if it needs to be done. I change tyres on cars when the need arises after making it to a safe spot to do so. I don't want to speak out of turn but believe I mentioned to coastguard that I was 'going in' -I cant be entirely sure as I had a lot of balls in the air so to speak-and cannot recall being advised not to. Getting the boat back safely to a pontoon was my finest hour of the weekend, the awful anchor drag down the orwell on the Monday was my worst hour....but that's a different cqr thread drift that I am not going to tell you all about.......tee hee. Take care all.

I have a basic mantra which is to never, ever, risk making a bad situation worse if there is a safer alternative and if you get something round the prop in coastal waters there is a very obviously safer option which is to call for help

(When it happened to us it was in Belgian waters and it cost me several hundred euros but better that than risk turning a minor mishap into a major emergency)

 

[Sailingsaves]

In fact, would fishermen use lights on the buoys if they were supplied free of charge?

I have no idea.

Being on the E coast and starting to cruise again with a transom mounted rudder on an old boat I have re-rigged my second boat hook with some sharp bits on one side and 'pusher bits of metal' on other side to hopefully help me before a pintle is torn off. I sail solo so going over even in a dry suit would be risky. Also thinking of rigging stern down lights in case I get snagged at night. (head torch may be cumbersome or not powerful enough to see the slimy rope)

 

[Leighb]

Seashoreman says "I am extremely vigilant " however that avails you not when the buoy is tiny and pulled under by the tide!!
I did manage to spot one such on a flat calm day only because there was an unusual swirl on the glassy surface. Any wind at all and it would have been invisible.

 

[adamstjohn]

Forgot to add, there was a crew member readying the anchor in the French rope incident.

 

[Athene V30]

On a fin keel boat with a skeg hung rudder would a wire between the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the skeg be a benefit to reduce the risk of a pot rope snagging a saildrive / shaft or is this a bad idea?

 

[Sailingsaves]

On a fin keel boat with a skeg hung rudder would a wire between the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the skeg be a benefit to reduce the risk of a pot rope snagging a saildrive / shaft or is this a bad idea?

I'm pretty sure that was in one of PBO's excellent Sketchbooks.

I'd fit it if I had a skeg.

 

[adamstjohn]

On a fin keel boat with a skeg hung rudder would a wire between the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the skeg be a benefit to reduce the risk of a pot rope snagging a saildrive / shaft or is this a bad idea?

Since this happened, I have been thinking the same thing, a little thing like that could have prevented the thing happening, like your thinking.

 

[pvb]

On a fin keel boat with a skeg hung rudder would a wire between the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the skeg be a benefit to reduce the risk of a pot rope snagging a saildrive / shaft or is this a bad idea?

It depends whether the skeg goes right down to the bottom of the rudder. On my old HR352, the rudder extended about 100mm below the bottom of the skeg, and that's what picked up a floating pot line. I considered fitting a stainless steel wire from the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the rudder, but sold the boat before I got around to doing it.

 

[Malish]

suspect a wire might act more like a washing line when the yacht is stationary, and catch debris which otherwise would have passed by.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Presume you mean Thames CG.
I called them up one day and explained there were very poorly marked pots directly off their office, and they quite crossly told me it was nothing to do with them and they couldn't do anything about it.

Well, that's shot me down in flames

To be fair, you can understand their attitude not wanting to take responsibility as it leaves them open to claims
etc. etc.

It will probably come to a head when a leisure sailor drifts into a shipping lane close to shore, with no power/steering
to get out of the way. Felixstowe/Harwich springs to mind.

One would hope that an anchor would be deployed before then.

It is appreciated that you are taking some positive action with the RYA so that we can all take part in bringing about change.

 

[Otter]

suspect a wire might act more like a washing line when the yacht is stationary, and catch debris which otherwise would have passed by.

It's going to collect vast quantities of seaweed, some plastic and paper.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

On a fin keel boat with a skeg hung rudder would a wire between the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the skeg be a benefit to reduce the risk of a pot rope snagging a saildrive / shaft or is this a bad idea?

I'm pretty sure that was in one of PBO's excellent Sketchbooks.

I'd fit it if I had a skeg.

Since this happened, I have been thinking the same thing, a little thing like that could have prevented the thing happening, like your thinking.

It depends whether the skeg goes right down to the bottom of the rudder. On my old HR352, the rudder extended about 100mm below the bottom of the skeg, and that's what picked up a floating pot line. I considered fitting a stainless steel wire from the bottom of the keel to the bottom of the rudder, but sold the boat before I got around to doing it.

The only time I have caught a pot line was many years ago, in my Dad's Halcyon 27. The Halcyon 27 is an Alan Buchanan design with a long keel and transom mounted rudder. The propeller operates in a small aperture between the keel and the rudder - it is FAR better protected by the hull and the rudder than most modern fin keel designs. However, we did catch a line, and as I was the person who was on the helm at the time, I dived down to get the line off! That experience has convinced me that voluntarily going into the water in UK waters is not a good idea - I managed, but by the time we were free, I was marginally hypothermic. I am also convinced that lines between fin and skeg will be of marginal benefit at best; the propeller sucks the rope into itself. It might help avoid catching a line round the rudder under sail, but won't make much difference under power.

 

[jimi]

I also have a partially balanced skeg hung rudder where the skeg ends above the end of the rudder. MY rudder got jammed a couple of years ago when a rope attached to poorly marked pots jammed between the skeg and the rudder.