Sunday Times reporter chartered from Sailing Holidays with no experience. Mad?

[BrianH]

Coo, not many. On the other hand, I presume the fatalities listed include people who had not yet ticked all four boxes.

Dunno, I'm not in the loop. I do know, from someone who does those crazy things, that they take qualifying seriously. The 'Earth' part of BASE is, of course, the easiest to access so you may be right that they could be the least experienced - but it is the most dangerous. And reading the dismal list in our local press, who seem to have a ghoulish relish in reporting the details, they usually do seem to have made plenty of other jumps, having come, in the main, from all over the world to our little area.

Whatever, there is no doubt in my mind it is the most dangerous, as unlike many other sports where something goes wrong with equipment or judgement, with BASE jumping the result is unlikely to be anything but terminal.

 

[capnsensible]

I don't think they should have used red splodges on that graph....... :nonchalance:

 

[Mistroma]

Put another way, the worst example you could think of out of every boat having a "major incident" was an inexperienced sailor not hitting the quay overly hard and taking longer than you would have done to tie up. I think our definitions of major and incident may be very different

It was simply the earliest incident I could remember where none of the charterers had any experience. I intended to illustrate the point that "newbies" had been chartering for a very long time and it wasn't a new phenomenon. Perhaps it is more common today.

I didn't want to make the post too long so didn't fill in the details. The reversing incident did get rather dangerous as 3 inexperienced guys put themselves between the reversing boat and the concrete quay. I remember the incident because they came within a whisker of being injured and I suspect that coloured my view of the day. You are quite correct, I didn't really mean that all the other boats had major incidents, just an awful lot of problems in perfect conditions.

I think that we are actually in agreement. Many non-sailors have chartered yachts for many years and the companies wouldn't still be doing it if they were racking up huge numbers of casualties.

 

[Duster]

The flottila situation is not disimilar to that of the Broads Cruisers, virtually none of the hirers has any boating experience.

 

[prv]

The flottila situation is not disimilar to that of the Broads Cruisers, virtually none of the hirers has any boating experience.

We did flotillas all through my teenage years, and my parents still do - perfectly capable of sailing independently, but they enjoy the social aspect.

I would say that most, though not all, of the boats had a little experience even if that was just hubby having sailed dinghies in his youth. But yeah, the general standard is not high (and nor does it need to be).

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

>What evidence do you have that base jumping is more dangerous than horse riding? Not potentially more dangerous, but actually more dangerous in practice.

When I started BASE jumping the fatality rates was one every 15 jumps, around the world sailing was 1 in 12 and climbing Everest was 1 in 10 so BASE was relatively safe. It's safer now because there is purpose built kit but wing suit proximity flying has much the same fatality rate as we had, with many of the most experienced killed when they push the limit too far. Horse riding has a minimal fatality number given the sheer number of riders and horses, they usually happen in road traffic accidents or cross country competitions.

 

[Babylon]

Why am I still subscribed to this thread..?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why am I still subscribed to this thread..?

Living dangerously?

 

[Iain C]

Brilliant response to one of dylans drama queens. Spent over 12 years in the Ionian and would say that Sailing Holidays punters did better than some bare boaters. Even then my boat survived 7 seasons of bare boat charter with only one crunch requiring repair work and a couple of toe rail dings. More than 500 people had use of the boat over that period, having a great time.

Well, apologies for being a "drama queen". I've not sailed in the Ionian and I've never done a flotilla. I've only chartered in the med once, it was a 40' Bav that had the ability to hurt you in all the ways I've described above, and it blew it's t1ts off for part of the week including being storm bound in Sardinia for a couple of days, and another night of anchor watch when it blew up again at midnight in Cala di Volpe.

All my crew came back with their heads and fingers still in place and no gelcoat was required, although in hindsight I was probably just being an over cautious drama queen...;-)

 

[Tranona]

Well, apologies for being a "drama queen". I've not sailed in the Ionian and I've never done a flotilla. I've only chartered in the med once, it was a 40' Bav that had the ability to hurt you in all the ways I've described above, and it blew it's t1ts off for part of the week including being storm bound in Sardinia for a couple of days, and another night of anchor watch when it blew up again at midnight in Cala di Volpe.

All my crew came back with their heads and fingers still in place and no gelcoat was required, although in hindsight I was probably just being an over cautious drama queen...;-)

As others have suggested you can apply your list of potentials to just about any activity once you get outside your front door.

The reality is that thousands of people charter boats, usually big and powerful in unfamiliar waters and don't get into trouble.

The flotilla scene is almost unique to the Ionian, and certain other parts of Greece, Turkey and Croatia precisely because the benign summer conditions mean that it is safe for inexperienced people have a great time on the sort of boat most could never dream of owning.

Suggest you take trip to Corfu and see the SH operation and the you might appreciate why it is so popular and successful.

 

[KellysEye]

>The 'Earth' part of BASE is, of course, the easiest to access so you may be right that they could be the least experienced - but it is the most dangerous.

Yes cliffs are easy but so is Clifton suspension bridge and (say) the Trellick Towers block near White City provided you have a key to the roof door supplied by a BASE jumping member of the Fire Brigade. Jumping the Mendlesham TV mast, near Ipswich, means getting over a barbed wire fence which an SBS guy showed us how to do. I wouldn't say any one of them is more dangerous than the other.

 

[BrianH]

>The 'Earth' part of BASE is, of course, the easiest to access so you may be right that they could be the least experienced - but it is the most dangerous.

Yes cliffs are easy but so is Clifton suspension bridge and (say) the Trellick Towers block near White City provided you have a key to the roof door supplied by a BASE jumping member of the Fire Brigade. Jumping the Mendlesham TV mast, near Ipswich, means getting over a barbed wire fence which an SBS guy showed us how to do. I wouldn't say any one of them is more dangerous than the other.

I really know nothing about all this (when did that ever stop anyone here?) but when so many come to this area and kill themselves by hitting sticky-out bits of rock, jumping off bridges and antennas that have a clear drop seems relatively safer ... emphasis on the "relatively".

 

[KellysEye]

>but when so many come to this area and kill themselves by hitting sticky-out bits of rock

You are right the wing suit proximity flyers hit sticky out bits, don't make it over the ground between a gap or misjudge their angle hit something. As I said it's the experienced wing suit guys who are getting killed because they get over confident and make mistakes.

On the subject of mistakes Frank Donellan, Nigel Slee and I were jumping Trellick Tower when Frank saw a dog run over and he loved dogs, he forgot to remove the pull up chord used to close the pack went off and died when he couldn't open the parachute. The American Carl Boenish started the BASE movement by jumping El Capitan in Yosemite park - the video went round the Internet like fire. He was making another video at the Trollvegen wall in Norway and was on a time frame. He made the mistake of jumping in cloud and hit the wall and died, it was at that point I decided to stop BASE jumping. If even he can die...

>jumping off bridges and antennas that have a clear drop seems relatively safer ... emphasis on the "relatively".

Yes those are relatively safer but you have to be careful. I remember climbing the Mendleshem TV mast which is 1,050 feet and has only four huge wires to hold it up, most have six. There was no wind on the ground but when I got to the top it was blowing a hooley right down one of the wires, so I went back down to live another day ;-)