Sump oil contaminated with diesel.

[vyv_cox]

I'm thinking while you have the cover off to do that check that all the valves are operating properly and closing fully.

Possible i wonder for some rust to have formed on a valve stem while it has been idle and for the valve ( possibly even more than one ... but then it would not start easily) not to be closing fully.

Exhaust valve the most likely to be affected I'd think. Possible also if that is the case that valve piston contact has been made, the piston pushing the valve nearly shut. Piston and valve damage then possible.

Just a thought !

Far, far easier to do the test that has been suggested several times now. Slackening off each injector pipe in turn with the engine running will take about two minutes and immediately identify whether one cylinder is faulty. Little point in doing all these other tests, some lengthy and possibly expensive, before determining whether it is a general engine problem (e.g. injector pump, bad fuel, something else?) or only one cylinder.

 

[VicS]

Far, far easier to do the test that has been suggested several times now.........

He has already been persuaded to take the rocker cover off to check the timing.

I'm suggesting he checks the valve operation while its off, not to take it off specifically before doing what you suggest.

I happen to think the suggestion about the timing being out by 180 will be proven to be wrong ... but there you go!

 

[Marsupial]

Vic,

The 180deg out for timing is more common than you may think, and its easy to do as you say 360deg on the crank - so it will look right! this malady was a considerable source of income on Monday mornings when I was in the motor trade petrol and diesel.

We acutally dont know what has happened to this engine clearly there is something wrong with it and its fundamental, I am 3000 miles away from it but am going through the motions. The OP is a novice, I would not recommend that he plays around with injection pipes with the engine running, atomised fuel in a confined space is very dangerous not discounting the risk of injecting himself with diesel.

The answer lies within this thread, its just a matter of time before it emerges.

Just my thoughts from out here

Have a nice day.

 

[VicS]

I would not recommend that he plays around with injection pipes with the engine running, atomised fuel in a confined space is very dangerous not discounting the risk of injecting himself with diesel.

Yes I have some reservations about that myself! Injecting oneself with diesel though is not likely from cracking a joint. its what happens when people start mucking about with the injectors though.

I'd suggest the OP wraps some rag around the joints as he cracks them... and only cracks them, not disconnect them.

 

[vyv_cox]

Yes I have some reservations about that myself! Injecting oneself with diesel though is not likely from cracking a joint. its what happens when people start mucking about with the injectors though.

I'd suggest the OP wraps some rag around the joints as he cracks them... and only cracks them, not disconnect them.

Having done this a number of times I can advise that there is no question of disconnecting the pipes. It usually takes little more than a turn of one flat to reduce the fuel pressure sufficiently to disrupt firing on that cylinder. There is no 'atomised fuel' nor risk of injecting diesel into the skin, it simply dribbles or squirts gently out of the union.

 

[grahama]

.

Thanks chaps,

As mentioned above I really don't believe the timing to have jumped to be exactly 180 degs out, as the timing has not been altered, there's more chance of me winning the lotto (we can dream) - but thanks for the comment although I don't believe it probable in this case someone reading might find it useful as a check if their timing belt has been replaced.

I'll check the valve operation, why not it's only a few nuts and then at least i can see if there is anything obvious.

I'm more than happy to crack each injector open whilst the engine is running, i'm not a total novice and do all my own routine vehicle maintenance and have in the past rebuilt a 200tdi engine with a bit of help (but that didn't need any diagnosis as it was seized when i bought it!)

A compression tester has been sourced from a kind chap in Stockport.

I also intend to connect an electrical 12v pump to bypass the lift pump altogether, the likely hood of two having failed is totally impossible but i've a pump i can adapt so i might as well.

 

[grahama]

.

cracked injector sleeves are a common cause of this problem, in road vehicles it's quite common - seems to be associated with the common rail engines where the fuel galley is part of the head, which mine isn't , but i thought i'd post this for others benefit.

 

[teekay]

Was thinking about your problem and just a thought but if the injector pump seal between pump and drive was leaking maybe the diesel is getting through down through your crank case. maybe if you can get the case away you could see if that could possibly be the cause. it appears youve done all else, cant think it would be compression as you are making too much deisel in the sump. Good luck

I think that Higler may have put his finger on your problem. In the mid nineties while working in a Ford dealership I recall that there were several instances of this seal leaking fuel into the cranckcase/sump on transit engines. IIRC the injection pump had to be removed and seal replaced to cure. I suggest you might contact an established Bosch injection specialist in your area and run this past him? Hope this might be of some value.

 

[VicS]

I think that Higler may have put his finger on your problem

I think

that if you read what the Op has said you will find that quite early on he told us that the pump is belt driven and that there is no route by which fuel can find its way from the pump into the crankcase!

I must admit that in the last Ford I owned the injector pump was gear driven from the crankshaft but I am pretty sure the OP will know the difference between gear driven and belt driven At least I hope so or he as had us all barking up various wrong trees for several days.

 

[Tradewinds]

I think

that if you read what the Op has said you will find that quite early on he told us that the pump is belt driven and that there is no route by which fuel can find its way from the pump into the crankcase!

I must admit that in the last Ford I owned the injector pump was gear driven from the crankshaft but I am pretty sure the OP will know the difference between gear driven and belt driven At least I hope so or he as had us all barking up various wrong trees for several days.

They are belt driven - I have the same set up.

 

[david_bagshaw]

History:- Engine, new Ford FSD (4 cyclinder direct injection 2.5 ltrs, read transit pre 2000) marinized by Lancing with PRM box, engine hours 150 total over about 6 years. Last 2 years on the hard, engine cranked over every month to get oil around to prevent corrosion and ran once every 6 weeks for a few minutes until the water cooled exhaust got too hot. Engine was fine prior to re-launch.


Has this lead to a case of bore wear / glazing problem

 

[Marsupial]

AHH at last, you have stuck valves!!!

 

[VicS]

AHH at last, you have stuck valves!!!

I already suggested that. Post #40

possibly bent as well

 

[penfold]

History:- Engine, new Ford FSD (4 cyclinder direct injection 2.5 ltrs, read transit pre 2000) marinized by Lancing with PRM box, engine hours 150 total over about 6 years. Last 2 years on the hard, engine cranked over every month to get oil around to prevent corrosion and ran once every 6 weeks for a few minutes until the water cooled exhaust got too hot. Engine was fine prior to re-launch.


Has this lead to a case of bore wear / glazing problem

Even with the short runs there's a good chance the rubber hose by the injector elbow will have heat damage; you should not be running it without water. Supplying water out of a bucket is so easy ity makes no sense to do without and risk damage.

Like the others have said, the symptoms suggest the compression is compromised in one or more cylinders by stuck or bent valves, possibly caused by the long periods out of use.

 

[grahama]

.

History:- Engine, new Ford FSD (4 cyclinder direct injection 2.5 ltrs, read transit pre 2000) marinized by Lancing with PRM box, engine hours 150 total over about 6 years. Last 2 years on the hard, engine cranked over every month to get oil around to prevent corrosion and ran once every 6 weeks for a few minutes until the water cooled exhaust got too hot. Engine was fine prior to re-launch.


Has this lead to a case of bore wear / glazing problem

Oops that was a typo should have read ran until rubber exhaust was warm, ie for about 1 minute max, to be honest the engine was mostly not run but cranked for a good 30 seconds with the stop solenoid disconnected to get oil around the engine to prevent corrosion etc.

Anyway:-

Compression test showed No. 1 at 16 bar, should be 30 - 33 bar, other were about 30bar + / - 3 bar. Added oil down injector hole - bit difficult as hole is only about 4mm max - used some narrow tubing and injected in about 30ml, re-tested showed 17 - 18 bar, not much difference.

Checked for tight valve on No.1, clearances were within spec.

So I guess it's either:-
1. sticking valve
2. cracked ring
3. sticking ring.

Don't think it's a glazing issue as I would have thought you'd see a similar low reading across them all.

How can I tell if it's a sticking valve, is it a head off check only and then what would I be looking for , a build up of carbon etc?

Would an engine flush help?(clearly not if a ring is cracked)

 

[VicS]

The oil into the cylinder should have shown up any (minor) ring problems.
30mls was quite a lot of oil to add. It must be pretty close to the volume left when fully compressed ( or even more on second thoughts!)

Checking the valve clearances should have found a sticking valve ... if one was stuck the clearance would have been wider than specified.

Thoughts

• that much oil forced the stuck valve shut and it will now be OK .... wishful thinking.
  
• There is a valve thats sticking when running /cranking but shut itself while you were checking clearances. maybe a broken spring ??
  
• There is a whacking great hole in a piston ... but why.
  

I reckon it going to have to be stripped down to investigate. Time has come to stop faffing around and get in there!

Your short runs while ashore were one of the worst things you could have done for it.

 

[catmandoo]

suggest you get all cylinders compression checked . .If not holding pressure some cylinders could not be firing and leaking diesel into crank case bypassing piston rings . You did not say whether you had loss of power or not .

Assuming route for diesel to injectors is via outside engine block via piping then only way for diesel to get into sump is via pistons/ cylinders so look there

 

[grahama]

.

suggest you get all cylinders compression checked . .If not holding pressure some cylinders could not be firing and leaking diesel into crank case bypassing piston rings . You did not say whether you had loss of power or not .

Assuming route for diesel to injectors is via outside engine block via piping then only way for diesel to get into sump is via pistons/ cylinders so look there

Read my last post again and you will see all cylinders were checked.

 

[VicS]

Read my last post again and you will see all cylinders were checked.

And all of the previous 54 posts in the thread!

 

[penfold]

It's head off time! But you knew that already.