PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
Whats the best time to start? All my charts etc are on board and not going down until late saturday so not able to sort out before I get down.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Suffolk Yacht Harbour to Ramsgate on Sunday
- Thread starter PetiteFleur
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
for Dover we leave @ HW Harwich ish
pvb
Well-Known Member
I'd aim to be at Landguard by HW Dover +1 to +2.
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Average speed through the water? Inside or outside route?
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PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
I usually work on 5 knots. I was thinking of leaving 2hrs after hw Felixstowe and taking the outside route. But am considering going thro' Foulgers Gat .
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the delay. I have just finished the 'outside' table and I wanted to double check the data.
The short answer is that that will do nicely. HW Felixstowe Pier on Sunday = 0445BST so +2 is 0645. all my tables work off HW Sheerness. Those tables suggest leaving Cliff Foot will give you:
HW Sheerness total duration of 8hrs 43 mins. at HW +1 = 8:44, HW+2 = 8:41, HW+3 = 8:42. So precious little difference but leaving at HW+3 you are loosing the tide done the North Foreland and slow passage here is balanced theoretically by good passage down the Kentish Knock. HW Sheerness on Sunday = 0538BST so you would be leaving on your schedule around HW Sheerness +1. Distance 46.25nm.
Inside route - Cliff Foot-Medusa - across the West Swin to the Barrow No 2 crossing point across the Little Sunk and then Foulger's Gat, etc = 39.07nm. Leaving HW Sheerness = 8:07 HW+2= 7:39, HW+3 = 7:39, HW +4 = 7:32. Anything after the HW+2 and the tide is not good going down the North Foreland.
This is the first outing of the outside route table and at first sight it suggests that in respect of help from the tide overall on the passage that the tide does not favour either the inside or outside route. Best average speed for the passage is 5.32kts outside, 5.31kts inside. Also at 5kts there isn't much help from the tide overall, you are generally using the the good bits of tide to offset the bad bits. So I guess it's down to how much you dislike crossing the Sunk Sand and going through Wind Farms against crossing the Sunk Gyratory and lumpy water off the Long Sand Head set against saving a little over an hour passage time.
I think that's worn the anorak out, anyone got a new one?
The short answer is that that will do nicely. HW Felixstowe Pier on Sunday = 0445BST so +2 is 0645. all my tables work off HW Sheerness. Those tables suggest leaving Cliff Foot will give you:
HW Sheerness total duration of 8hrs 43 mins. at HW +1 = 8:44, HW+2 = 8:41, HW+3 = 8:42. So precious little difference but leaving at HW+3 you are loosing the tide done the North Foreland and slow passage here is balanced theoretically by good passage down the Kentish Knock. HW Sheerness on Sunday = 0538BST so you would be leaving on your schedule around HW Sheerness +1. Distance 46.25nm.
Inside route - Cliff Foot-Medusa - across the West Swin to the Barrow No 2 crossing point across the Little Sunk and then Foulger's Gat, etc = 39.07nm. Leaving HW Sheerness = 8:07 HW+2= 7:39, HW+3 = 7:39, HW +4 = 7:32. Anything after the HW+2 and the tide is not good going down the North Foreland.
This is the first outing of the outside route table and at first sight it suggests that in respect of help from the tide overall on the passage that the tide does not favour either the inside or outside route. Best average speed for the passage is 5.32kts outside, 5.31kts inside. Also at 5kts there isn't much help from the tide overall, you are generally using the the good bits of tide to offset the bad bits. So I guess it's down to how much you dislike crossing the Sunk Sand and going through Wind Farms against crossing the Sunk Gyratory and lumpy water off the Long Sand Head set against saving a little over an hour passage time.
I think that's worn the anorak out, anyone got a new one?
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
At 5 knots average we always reckon on a couple of hours foul tide and given the tides in the channel its best done off Harwich. Nothing wrong with Foulgers, Tiller Girl has the chartlet for the latest route and its buoyed. I think there was a recent thread with calculations showing that the fastest route is inside.
Cotillion
Well-Known Member
HW Ramsgate -9hrs works for me.
Coming back HW Dover -2 should give you almost a fair tide all the way (though it will try to drag you up the Thames but this soon turns slack)and you should reach the mouth of the Orwell just as the tide turns for the upriver part.
Coming back HW Dover -2 should give you almost a fair tide all the way (though it will try to drag you up the Thames but this soon turns slack)and you should reach the mouth of the Orwell just as the tide turns for the upriver part.
Bru
Well-Known Member
Purely for the interest of the thing, I just ran the outside route through PC Plotter's optimum plan routine
That gives the best time to leave SYH as 06:00UTC (07:00 local) with a passage time via Long Sand Head of 9h08m at 5kts
ETA at Long Sand Head would be 09:45UTC pretty much bang on when the tide turns from foul to fair down the outside of the Kentish Knock
You'd just about make Ramsgate as the tide turned foul, maybe losing it for the last few miles provided you kept to schedule
I think tha agrees fairly closely with Tillergirl's tables?
That gives the best time to leave SYH as 06:00UTC (07:00 local) with a passage time via Long Sand Head of 9h08m at 5kts
ETA at Long Sand Head would be 09:45UTC pretty much bang on when the tide turns from foul to fair down the outside of the Kentish Knock
You'd just about make Ramsgate as the tide turned foul, maybe losing it for the last few miles provided you kept to schedule
I think tha agrees fairly closely with Tillergirl's tables?
Otter
Well-Known Member
We've been using the inside route now the last two years and I'm a bit confused about the reference to Sunk Sand. Do you gain much by crossing it? We use Black Deep No1 as out waypoint and leaving that to starboard the ebb keeps us away from the sand. I can see it's technically a bit shorter to cross the sand but is it worth it?
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand the difference between being 'shorter' and 'technically shorter'! The inside route via the Sunk Head and Black Deep is 39.73nm against 39.07 crossing the West Swin and Little Sunk. That's using a very conservative right angled crossing of the Sunk Sand which isn't necessary. You can probably trim nearly half a mile off that if you really wanted. The thing is probably about wind direction and being able to hold a course under sail that makes the difference - which is probably more likely to be important coming north if there is a westerly, when the diagonal across the West Swin with the ebb is going to be a lot easier that Sunk Head in towards the Naze. Keeps you out of the way of the big stuff in the Black Deep for longer if that's important. It's a personal choice it seems to me.
Toutvabien
Well-Known Member
We are planning to leave Britlingsea at about 7am on Sunday heading towards Ramsgate and points west. Our departure time is based upon a negotiation between the tidal requirements and 16 year old twin daughters need to be well rested.
Although time and tide waits for no man, it is expected to hang around for 16 year old girls.
Although time and tide waits for no man, it is expected to hang around for 16 year old girls.
Habebty
Well-Known Member
Everyone's going west!
I'll be leaving the Orwell for Dover and points west Sunday as well.
Looks like there might be a big pile up at North Foreland
wingdiver
Well-Known Member
Hope you get past Gosport. If not, don't forget Trans Europe at Royal Clarence.....Everyone's going west!
I'll be leaving the Orwell for Dover and points west Sunday as well.
Looks like there might be a big pile up at North Foreland
Otter
Well-Known Member
Nasty westerlies at the moment and probably for a few days so we're postponing Lulworth, Chapman's and Weymouth for another week and going East to the IOW. Shame there are no Trans Europe marinas there but plenty opposite. Brownsea has been fun for a couple of days though.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
also Bucklers hard
CliveG
Well-Known Member
Everyone's going west!
I'll be leaving the Orwell for Dover and points west Sunday as well.
Looks like there might be a big pile up at North Foreland
We aren't going until a week Monday :-(
Got to put the keel back together and slap on some anti-fouling this weekend.
If you happen to be around Shotley on Saturday evening do drop by and say hi.
I think Alchemist V274 and I will be visiting the Bristol Arms at some stage.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Coincidentally I went from Ramsgate to Harwich on Sunday, I went through Foulgers Gat, we crossed Sunk Sands a bit too soon and got a bit concerned about depths as there seemed to be about 1.5m less than charted, there appeared to be a non charted build up on the west side just before deeper water was regained. We draw 2M and it was just before LW (although neaps) so we were probably pushing it anyway.
Ramsgate was pretty full and it was tricky getting an overnight berth, the outer eastern was offered and we tried it, but it was too rolly polly.
Ramsgate was pretty full and it was tricky getting an overnight berth, the outer eastern was offered and we tried it, but it was too rolly polly.
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tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Can you be more specific about where you crossed - and did you mean the UKHO chart or my chartlet? Perhaps I need to get down there again.
jimi
Well-Known Member
I was using the latest chart on the Garmin Chartplotter.
I crossed at 51'45N 01.28E the chart showed LAT of 2.9M , I was about 2 hours before LW and got down to 0.1 on the depth, was about to abort the crossing and retrack when it started getting deeper.
