Suffolk in Tier 4 From 26th December

Gladys said:
Surely the definition of Tier 4 from UK Govt says it all:

"Tier 4: Stay at Home"
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But thoughtful people must surely be allowed to wonder why? Lockdowns demonstrably don't work; even the medics are saying that. If I decide to get in my car, on my own, and drive to my boat, where I'm also on my own (and in the open air), what possible danger would I pose to anyone?
 
pvb said:
But thoughtful people must surely be allowed to wonder why? Lockdowns demonstrably don't work; even the medics are saying that. If I decide to get in my car, on my own, and drive to my boat, where I'm also on my own (and in the open air), what possible danger would I pose to anyone?
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Wash your mouth out with single malt whiskey...
You are not allowed to think sensibly. you muzt follow the herd.
 
We seem to be at risk of falling out here, and upsetting Plumbs further. Let's not do that.
I don't know Plumbs, but I think I find this talk depressing because we're discussing bizarre limits to our freedom, where sailing is usually about exercising freedom.

The "Stay at home order" is clearly contradicted in the smaller print and that might not be illogical.

It is desirable that the majority stay at home, but most are terrified of covid and will.

That a minority go sailing, and perhaps do a little maintenance on their boats this does not undo the good that is the majority staying at home.

The government's concern is to control the behaviour of the masses, it doesn't help bringing fairness into the argument, if there is room for only half the crew in a lifeboat, should all the crew drown?
 
If your boat is out of the water you cannot do any work on it, it will be looked after by the marina or yard where you keep it. I think that is what they say.

But, if you are in the water then you can go sailing.:)

Go to the boat, prepare it for your sail, go out and if needed fix anything that needs to be done for the safe enjoyment of your sail, go back to the marina and tuck your boat away until your next visit, next week or even tomorrow.;)

Bad luck if your boat is out, needs anti-foul, anodes or under water stuff doing. If your not in a yard or marina that is even more bad luck. In a club you could 'employ' someone to be caretaker, who could do odd jobs for members I suppose, but that might be asking a bit too much.:(
 
The virus will spread throughout the population by social contact, that is what viruses do.

The purpose of a 'lockdown' is to slow the spread of the virus so that the NHS can cope with the expected casualties.
Unchecked there would be a large peek, those needing treatment would overwhelm the NHS resources and result in unnecessary deaths.
By staging lockdowns the peek can be reduced and the NHS can cope, you end up with a saw toothed curve, a rise followed by a drop in number of cases followed by another rise.
Buying time this way allows for the development and deployment of a vaccine which should further reduce the number of infections and hence deaths.
So lockdowns 'don't work' to stop the virus, it will do what viruses do, but you do buy time, prevent the NHS being overwhelmed and saving lives.
 
Lucy52 said:
The virus will spread throughout the population by social contact, that is what viruses do.

The purpose of a 'lockdown' is to slow the spread of the virus so that the NHS can cope with the expected casualties.
Unchecked there would be a large peek, those needing treatment would overwhelm the NHS resources and result in unnecessary deaths.
By staging lockdowns the peek can be reduced and the NHS can cope, you end up with a saw toothed curve, a rise followed by a drop in number of cases followed by another rise.
Buying time this way allows for the development and deployment of a vaccine which should further reduce the number of infections and hence deaths.
So lockdowns 'don't work' to stop the virus, it will do what viruses do, but you do buy time, prevent the NHS being overwhelmed and saving lives.
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OK Boris, your cover is blown.................
 
I have been saying pretty much the same as Lucy52 in #47 since the start of this fiasco.
I call it a fiasco because the lives that are being saved are mostly lives that are about to expire within the next 12 months. But the cost is absolutely beyond all recognition. Hundreds of thousands of people are loosing or will loose their jobs.

If the government had used the normal NICE. methodology for deciding if a treatment was worthwhile, it would have not destroyed the economy for the short term saving of lives that are mostly eeking out their last months in care homes. This hole episode has come about to prevent photographs of patients dying on trollies in hospital corridors. ...

I will probably attract some aprobation for my views. In reply I can only observe First Officer is teetering on the edge of a full on clinical depression as a result of this lockdown. Meanwhile I am told all the deaths in town have been in care homes after a care assistant bought the virus into the building.
 
Tomahawk said:
I have been saying pretty much the same as Lucy52 in #47 since the start of this fiasco.
I call it a fiasco because the lives that are being saved are mostly lives that are about to expire within the next 12 months. But the cost is absolutely beyond all recognition. Hundreds of thousands of people are loosing or will loose their jobs.

If the government had used the normal NICE. methodology for deciding if a treatment was worthwhile, it would have not destroyed the economy for the short term saving of lives that are mostly eeking out their last months in care homes. This hole episode has come about to prevent photographs of patients dying on trollies in hospital corridors. ...
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All very true. The scandalous way in which our "beloved" NHS is run has been exposed many times during this virus fiasco. Sadly, I don't think any government will actually tackle the long-overdue reform of the NHS.
 
pvb said:
All very true. The scandalous way in which our "beloved" NHS is run has been exposed many times during this virus fiasco. Sadly, I don't think any government will actually tackle the long-overdue reform of the NHS.
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Successive Governments keep trying but they always come up against the idea that our NHS is perfect as it is and any change is to be resisted to the utmost. Too many vested interests have too much power in NHS for reform to be easy.
 
I am not sure that counting the success/failure of the govt's efforts in terms of deaths is the only measure. There are lots of people who go into hospital who do actually come out the other side alive. They can only do so if the resources that the NHS has are able to cope. If those resourecs are swamped there will be more deaths.
I do not accept that just because someone is elderly they should be considered as "expendable" either. At what point does one establish expendability 60, 70, 80 years of age. there are quite a lot of forumites in the lower of these age brackets & whilst they are trying to figure ways of dodging the "stay at home" rules perhaps they might also decide if they would like to go into the " expendable" bracket at the same time. Similarly, they might decide if they want to take a couple of their loved ones with them; because that is what they may well do, if they do not get spotted in time. Just wipe the entire household out. At least make them seriously ill & put them through all the stress & worry that goes with it. Not to mention the long term conditions that can arise.

So try all the "dodge the rules" tricks you want. But does a few extra weekends in the middle of winter make any difference to your boating in the grand scheme of things. 2 good weekends when it is warm is better than a whole host of days in the winter. As for sailing in the winter!! Come off it. Surely one can do without that for a while. Especially if it means that we ALL go sailing in the summer

But that is only my opinion. It is not meant to offend. Others will put up alternative views. That is what a forum is for.
 
I cannot see the harm in going to work on your boat on the hard. When I go to mine I am alone in the car and there is no One in close proximity in the marina. I don’t use the toilets or visit the chandlery ( when it’s open) I tend to order what I need online. I only spend two or three hours at a time there. It’s too cold for more than that. I then get in my car alone and drive home. It could be argued that I do need to fill the car up occasionally but I do this when we go to the supermarket. It could also be argued that if I had an accident I would be putting others at risk but more accidents occur in the home I believe than on the roads. I don’t see the problem?
 
Daydream believer said:
So try all the "dodge the rules" tricks you want.
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Sorry,

I haven't seen anyone here discuss dodging the rules. We have been advised by the RYA and our sailing clubs that we can go sailing, we are just trying to make sense of the rules.

I have done my best sailing in the winter. But I won't be able to this year as my boat, and I are not in good condition. The best I can hope for is a float about on the creek.
 
Tomahawk said:
I have been saying pretty much the same as Lucy52 in #47 since the start of this fiasco.
I call it a fiasco because the lives that are being saved are mostly lives that are about to expire within the next 12 months. But the cost is absolutely beyond all recognition. Hundreds of thousands of people are loosing or will loose their jobs.

If the government had used the normal NICE. methodology for deciding if a treatment was worthwhile, it would have not destroyed the economy for the short term saving of lives that are mostly eeking out their last months in care homes. This hole episode has come about to prevent photographs of patients dying on trollies in hospital corridors. ...

I will probably attract some aprobation for my views. In reply I can only observe First Officer is teetering on the edge of a full on clinical depression as a result of this lockdown. Meanwhile I am told all the deaths in town have been in care homes after a care assistant bought the virus into the building.
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At 84, thank you very much! I can't go for a sail in my cruiser, not because I'm geriatric and in a care home, but because I'm currently in Tier 3 and must not visit Tier 4 (Suffolk). Any way the boat is having the engine replaced amd is out of the water. Hopefully I will be able to race my dinghy on Wednesday afternoon on a local reservoir unless the West Midlands is then put in Tier 4 when I will be allowed to sail around but not race!!!
If I get Covid badly I seriously hope the NHS try hard to get me better. By no means all those in their 70's and 80's are in care homes leaving sedentary lives. There is a lot of life still to be lived(hopefully).
Incidentally not all those early photos from Italy were of old folk struggling in hospital. Stay safe
 
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