Sub-letting a marina berth for a few months

[SvenH]

If you want to discuss fairness, lets talk about the prices for large boats v small boats.

You can berth more small boats per sqm of marina than large ones, because small ones need narower 'streets'.

Edit... Not sure about this now....

 

[westernman]

If you want to discuss fairness, lets talk about the prices for large boats v small boats.

You can berth more small boats per sqm of marina than large ones, because small ones need narower 'streets'.

Edit... Not sure about this now....

Lets not.
My boat is 20m LOA. I pay for a 16m berth as I am 15.3m LOD. And park in a 20m berth.

 

[oldgit]

Similar in private boat club and a condition of membership.
It states quite clearly and unequivocally in the members rule book that under no circumstances will any berth be sub let or other wise reallocated by any club member under any circumstances.
Any berth that is notified as being vacant for more than 72 hours can be used to accomodate visiting craft to boost club funds and to help keep costs down.

 

[Refueler]

Lets not.
My boat is 20m LOA. I pay for a 16m berth as I am 15.3m LOD. And park in a 20m berth.

I know a well known Marina that lost a few clients because guys went round and measured LOA including any appendages / items left sticking out such as over bow anchors / bowsprits etc.

I think you are VERY lucky to get away with LOD instead of LOA.

 

[steveeasy]

I think mists contracts are boat specific so you can’t Willy nilly change boats without permission.
I also appreciate most contracts specifically state the berth allocated to you can change as an when they need too.

Where I !!! Struggle is when any berth is not available to a berth holder. I’ve been out before for a day sail and returned to find repair boats in my berth. Given the tidal nature of my berth this could easily led to a collision with another vessel. If it had I would have looked for a legal recourse towards the yard.

Why. Because whilst the contract allows to change your berth. It is unreasonable to do so without any notice at all. It can also cause a navigational risk too.

But trying to sublet a berth to another party is a none starter.

Steveeasy

 

[ylop]

Meditarano - what if hypothetically a marina offered three arrangements. Arrangement A is the typical arrangement - you pay £A, if you don’t use the berth you still pay but the marina can rent the berth to others and retain the money. If you leave a dinghy instead of your vessel they can move it.

Arrangement B is you can rent out the berth yourself to others, and keep the proceeds but have to do all the marketing and admin yourself. The marina offers this option for £A+B.

arrangement C is the marina can sublet when you are not there but will give you 30% of the money they get from visitors to “your berth”. The imbalance in the sharing reflects the fact the marina has to do all the admin, marketing etc.. The fee for this service is £A+C

How much extra (as a % of a 12 month contract) are you prepared to pay for B or C?

 

[mediterrano]

Meditarano - what if hypothetically a marina offered three arrangements. Arrangement A is the typical arrangement - you pay £A, if you don’t use the berth you still pay but the marina can rent the berth to others and retain the money. If you leave a dinghy instead of your vessel they can move it.

Arrangement B is you can rent out the berth yourself to others, and keep the proceeds but have to do all the marketing and admin yourself. The marina offers this option for £A+B.

arrangement C is the marina can sublet when you are not there but will give you 30% of the money they get from visitors to “your berth”. The imbalance in the sharing reflects the fact the marina has to do all the admin, marketing etc.. The fee for this service is £A+C

How much extra (as a % of a 12 month contract) are you prepared to pay for B or C?

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors, When the boaters sublet their berth, they should not be required to give the marinas any percentages but the marinas could require the visitors to pay a small amount for helping them with docking/undocking. They will anyway make extra money off the visitors for providing them with all sorts of services.

Also, I do not agree with the argument that marinas would be entitled to charge higher annual rates in return for allowing the boat-owners to sublet their berths,
I back this by comparing the costs & return of operating a marina with that of operating a seaside condominium complex at the same location.
If you did the comparison, you would find out that operating a marina is already way more lucrative, so therefore it's not true that marinas depend on the extra revenue generated from renting the berths to visitors to stay profitable and that they do so just out of greed to increase their profits even more and that there is therefore absolutely no justification to charge the boaters even higher rates for letting them sublet the berths they have rented for the whole year.

 

[The Q]

My club moorings are members only , the exceptions are;
Visitors arriving for a club event, during the event or departing shortly after.
Pre organized groups , such as schools , scouts etc, but that is rare and not on a day the club is being used for other sailing events, which in summer is a minimum of 3 days a week.
The police / fire brigade/ inshore rescue / Ambulance, as our carpark and slipway are an area emergency launch / recovery control point when required.

Oh and in a couple of weeks time club boats on the " mainland" moorings will be moved out of the way for the boat show.
Welcome to the Horning Boat Show website

 

[Refueler]

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors, When the boaters sublet their berth, they should not be required to give the marinas any percentages but the marinas could require the visitors to pay a small amount for helping them with docking/undocking. They will anyway make extra money off the visitors for providing them with all sorts of services.

Also, I do not agree with the argument that marinas would be entitled to charge higher annual rates in return for allowing the boat-owners to sublet their berths,
I back this by comparing the costs & return of operating a marina with that of operating a seaside condominium complex at the same location.
If you did the comparison, you would find out that operating a marina is already way more lucrative, so therefore it's not true that marinas depend on the extra revenue generated from renting the berths to visitors to stay profitable and that they do so just out of greed to increase their profits even more and that there is therefore absolutely no justification to charge the boaters even higher rates for letting them sublet the berths they have rented for the whole year.

I get the general impression that you haven't understood a word of any replies ... that you seem not to have understood the general setup of UK marinas ...

You now introduce 'seaside condo' ..... which if rented - ALSO will normally not allow subletting and is a completely different ballgame entirely.

I used to own a Summer Mobile home on Hayling island .... the home was owned but ground was rented. I could sublet - but it was through the Park Management .... reason being that it was not a Holiday Camp - it was private user ... and to avoid problems for other owners.

 

[Refueler]

My club moorings are members only , the exceptions are;
Visitors arriving for a club event, during the event or departing shortly after.
Pre organized groups , such as schools , scouts etc, but that is rare and not on a day the club is being used for other sailing events, which in summer is a minimum of 3 days a week.
The police / fire brigade/ inshore rescue / Ambulance, as our carpark and slipway are an area emergency launch / recovery control point when required.

Oh and in a couple of weeks time club boats on the " mainland" moorings will be moved out of the way for the boat show.
Welcome to the Horning Boat Show website

Club moorings are a different matter to what Mediterrano is on about ...

Its normal that Club Moorings are stated to be XXX boat etc.

Visitors allowed to use subject to agreement with the club and there being a vacant mooring agreed with the standing user ...

 

[Tranona]

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors, When the boaters sublet their berth, they should not be required to give the marinas any percentages but the marinas could require the visitors to pay a small amount for helping them with docking/undocking. They will anyway make extra money off the visitors for providing them with all sorts of services.

Also, I do not agree with the argument that marinas would be entitled to charge higher annual rates in return for allowing the boat-owners to sublet their berths,
I back this by comparing the costs & return of operating a marina with that of operating a seaside condominium complex at the same location.
If you did the comparison, you would find out that operating a marina is already way more lucrative, so therefore it's not true that marinas depend on the extra revenue generated from renting the berths to visitors to stay profitable and that they do so just out of greed to increase their profits even more and that there is therefore absolutely no justification to charge the boaters even higher rates for letting them sublet the berths they have rented for the whole year.

Once again, this is only your "opinion" and not shared by the owners and operators of marinas. They are serious business people and pretty sure that if they saw benefit in the sort of arrangements you suggest they would have adopted them.

Perhaps put some numbers on the suggestions in post#66. Marina budgets income from a berth at £10k based on visitors berthing of £2k

Option 1 lease with subletting rights £10k Marina takes 25% of any visitor income booked through its system
Option 2 Annual rent with 25% share of actual visitor income £8.5k
Option 3 Annual rent under normal contract £8k

Which would you choose?

As many have said most marinas operate in a market where demand exceeds supply so they choose a charging regime that maximises their return. Sorry it does not meet with your approval.

 

[[70521]]

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors, When the boaters sublet their berth, they should not be required to give the marinas any percentages but the marinas could require the visitors to pay a small amount for helping them with docking/undocking. They will anyway make extra money off the visitors for providing them with all sorts of services.

Also, I do not agree with the argument that marinas would be entitled to charge higher annual rates in return for allowing the boat-owners to sublet their berths,
I back this by comparing the costs & return of operating a marina with that of operating a seaside condominium complex at the same location.
If you did the comparison, you would find out that operating a marina is already way more lucrative, so therefore it's not true that marinas depend on the extra revenue generated from renting the berths to visitors to stay profitable and that they do so just out of greed to increase their profits even more and that there is therefore absolutely no justification to charge the boaters even higher rates for letting them sublet the berths they have rented for the whole year.

We keep coming back to this. In the UK we sign a contract that forbids the berth holder to sub let their berth.

 

[dunedin]

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors, When the boaters sublet their berth, they should not be required to give the marinas any percentages but the marinas could require the visitors to pay a small amount for helping them with docking/undocking. They will anyway make extra money off the visitors for providing them with all sorts of services.

Also, I do not agree with the argument that marinas would be entitled to charge higher annual rates in return for allowing the boat-owners to sublet their berths,
I back this by comparing the costs & return of operating a marina with that of operating a seaside condominium complex at the same location.
If you did the comparison, you would find out that operating a marina is already way more lucrative, so therefore it's not true that marinas depend on the extra revenue generated from renting the berths to visitors to stay profitable and that they do so just out of greed to increase their profits even more and that there is therefore absolutely no justification to charge the boaters even higher rates for letting them sublet the berths they have rented for the whole year.

Go set up a marina then, and keep us posted
Out

 

[ylop]

As already said, IMHO the marinas should give the berth-owners a certain percentage when renting their berths to visitors,

Your humble opinion doesn’t really matter though unless you are planning to buy/build a marina, in which case good luck to you - I doubt people will be rushing to use you because of your very generous terms, but you would likely be busy anyway.