Studland bay preservation association

[oldharry]

"I know many of you are only trying to wind us up, sorry it is not working and sorry to disappoint you on that, I am too old and long in the tooth to be wound up like this and quite hoinestly daft comments are like water off a ducks back to me." Neil Garrick-Maidment

Ho hum! Another informative, helpful and considered response to my question from the Seahorse Trust.

Curious when their Trust's stated aims are, inter alia :

"1. To promote FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC (my caps) the preservation and conservation of rare and endangered species...

2. To advance the education of the Public generally about Wild flora and fauna

3. To conduct research and enquiry into endangered species.... AND TO PUBLISH THE RESULTS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC"

I wonder of Neil and Steve have actually read this document, which is quoted from their entry on the Charity Commission website?

Perhaps a few more of us should make representations about our concerns to both the Charity Commission and Lottery heritage Fund about an organisation whose every response shows them increasingly to be cowboys, as has Major Catastrophe?

 

[jordanbasset]

Evidence?

Neil, re the following statement of yours -

"I know this arguement has been put forward many times about an increase in the seagrass backed up by anecdotal and other evidence but whenever I ask for the evidence nobody has it or can put me in the direction of it. So I will ask again if you have the evidence one way or the other then please let us know and show it to us.
I had one gentleman (and I use that term loosely as his behaviour was far from gentlemanly) who told me he has studied seahorses in Studland Bay for 50 years and has prove that they are thriving and increasing in numbers; again when asked for the evidence he cannot back up what he is saying."

You say you ask for evidence, a person then gives you a first hand account of his direct observations going back 50 years and you then make the ridiculous statement that no one shows you the evidence. Can you not see the contradiction in what you are saying. This is anecdotal but it is still evidence. The quallity if it does depend on the individual concerned, I do not know the person but has he given you any reason to believe he is lying. Also I understand from this and other threads many others have first hand accounts of direct observation of sea horses going back many years, have you spoken to them. If so I suggest you will have more than sufficient evidence to suggest sea horses have been in Studland for a long time. Of course it would have been ideal if a scientific survey had been conducted in the area over the last 50 years, but failing that this is the best evidence we have.

However, let us suppose they have not been there until recently, what do you think as a scientist may influence the decision of the first sea horses to arrive to pick Studland. Could it be that boats using the bay have made it more hospitable to the sea horses? I only suggest this as a possible approach as it appears there are plenty of other places they could have settled where boats do not/are not able to anchor?

 

[Twister_Ken]

When one party runs away from the debate it is an acknowledgement of the paucity of its proposition.

Both Neil and Steve have now left the stage, in high dudgeon, leaving no evidence or credible argument behind.

But they may, even now, by crying 'not fair' into the more receptive ears of Finding Sanctuary.

Therefore, I urge you to convey your opinions to FS, soonest.

 

[sarabande]

I raised in very general terms my concerns about the conduct of this Trust and its management with the Charity Commission in November 2009.

I have done so again very recently.


For excellent and very clear background information on what aspects of a charity might cause the CC to take action, look at Section D3

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc47.asp#d



The person at Charity Commission Direct (the issues and complaints section of the CC) is here:

sandie.brown2@charitycommission.gsi.gov.uk

 

[KevB]

This site could be useful if evidence is required to show how eel grass has increased in studland over the last 30 years.

Maybe we should start a fighting fund.

http://www.oldaerialphotos.com

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

For excellent and very clear background information on what aspects of a charity might cause the CC to take action, look at Section D3

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc47.asp#d

The person at Charity Commission Direct (the issues and complaints section of the CC) is here:

sandie.brown2@charitycommission.gsi.gov.uk

You can easily vote against (or for) areas becoming Marine Protected Areas:

Studland Bay:
http://www.yourseasyourvoice.com/mpa/?region=3&site=14

Worbarrow Bay:
http://www.yourseasyourvoice.com/mpa/?region=3&site=15

You can contact Finding Sanctuary here:

http://www.finding-sanctuary.org/page/contact-us.html

Who makes the final decision on an anchor ban plus a proliforation of moorings at Studland Bay? I want to write to them, I think others should as well.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I raised in very general terms my concerns about the conduct of this Trust and its management with the Charity Commission in November 2009.

I have done so again very recently.


For excellent and very clear background information on what aspects of a charity might cause the CC to take action, look at Section D3

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc47.asp#d



The person at Charity Commission Direct (the issues and complaints section of the CC) is here:

sandie.brown2@charitycommission.gsi.gov.uk

Thanks for that. I made my submission on two of those points, but I can see that they may have, in my opinion, breached at least four points.

I will await replies and if necessary resubmit.

If both the Heritage Lottery and the Charity Commission do their job, it be a while before I hear from them as they have pages and pages of material featuring ST44 to go through. Some of it make interesting reading.

Simply search the forums for user ST44.

But in his own words, Steve Trewhella, a marine photographer, has been monitoring the population for the trust. "We found a pregnant male at Studland four years ago and it was the only one ever seen in the UK." Since then, he said, "their numbers have been snowballing. We're into the 40s now, and still finding more.http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/09/endangeredspecies.wildlife

To me that is 'scientific proof' that boats and marine equines can live together and there is no need to turn Studland Bay into and one man diver's playground.

 

[Robin]

You can easily vote against (or for) areas becoming Marine Protected Areas:

Studland Bay:
http://www.yourseasyourvoice.com/mpa/?region=3&site=14

Worbarrow Bay:
http://www.yourseasyourvoice.com/mpa/?region=3&site=15

You can contact Finding Sanctuary here:

http://www.finding-sanctuary.org/page/contact-us.html

Who makes the final decision on an anchor ban plus a proliforation of moorings at Studland Bay? I want to write to them, I think others should as well.

Be very careful about this one! This site seems to accept any vote including one made AGAINST the proposal as being support received for their cause. Read the page carefully and you will see it is one of those heads they win tails you lose deals.

 

[Ubergeekian]

You are not having a constructive debate, you are running away again when anyone asks a question that challenges. For example HOW DOES ANYONE JOIN the Seahorse Trust?

That's a red herring - it's like asking how one joins Oxfam. Charities need trustees, but they don't need members and the overwhelming majority don't need them.

That said, it would be interesting to know how many people beyond the Neil, Steve and the five trustees are actually involved.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Be very careful about this one! This site seems to accept any vote including one made AGAINST the proposal as being support received for their cause. Read the page carefully and you will see it is one of those heads they win tails you lose deals.

Thanks for the warning but I don't see what you mean, the question is pretty straightforward and I can see nothing else in the text.

 

[DogWatch]

I raised in very general terms my concerns about the conduct of this Trust and its management with the Charity Commission in November 2009.

I have done so again very recently.


sandie.brown2@charitycommission.gsi.gov.uk

Letter written and sent to Ms Sandie Brown outlining my concerns of behaviour and practise of Seahorse Trust

 

[reginaldon]

Done!

No local knowledge, but have followed the arguments and the logic behind them and feel justified in adding my 'no' vote.

 

[DogWatch]

Bournemouth Echo

from the other thread I decided to do some reading..

This is in the comments section under one 'story'

Boat_moorings____damaging_bay_seahorse_sites

Ouch !!!
Some people really don't like the idea of conserving anything no they ?
does purbeckpara have a boat that he takes to studland ?
I have never said its the largest seahourse population in the world, don't know where that came from.
It is the largest breeding population in the uk, and it is protected by law.
All we want is protection put in place.
I am glad that there arn't many purbeckpara's left in the world, its because of people like this , that the planet is in such a mess.
He thinks experts in conservation are the same as chunky sweater wearing hippies who have nothing better to do with their time.
How misguided.
We have the evidence that this habitat is being damaged.
There is nothing to say the population has gone up in numbers, we have just been looking harder.
Its a bit of a cop out thinking 'lots of boats,lots of seahorses' lets just leave it alone.
If only it was that simple.
I have never said that they are new to the bay ?
We do not cause them 'great pain' when they are tagged.
It would seem that some people just want to carry on trashing the enviroment for thier own selfish reasons. Thank god they are a minority.

"We have the evidence that this habitat is being damaged."

Here's a thought, SHOW US!

 

[oldharry]

"We have the evidence that this habitat is being damaged."

Here's a thought, SHOW US!

And this is the whole point: Seahorse Trust has been in existence for ten years. They have received - according to the accounts submitted to the Charity Comission, just under £80,000 of public money in that time up to march 2009. Since then they appear to have received Heritage funding amounting to £35,000 or so in additon to donatioons amounting to at least a further £8,000 Apparently there are other major funding grants, but these have not been accounted to the Charity Commissioners in the Trust accounts. Be that as it may, after five years research in Studland Bay, their research has produced - NOTHING! No interim reports, no statistics, no analysis. Just a website with some pictures that could have been taken anywhere.

When asked for evidence of damage the response seems to be 'we have seen it, we do not need to show you'. I have yet to see ANY proper analysis of the problems they say they perceive. Lets look at some of the things they are saying:

'The Eel grass beds are being damaged' - yet any regular visitor can see that they are proliferating, and particularly in the last 3 years have expanded considerably.

'We discovered the Seahorses in 2005' No they did not. They were pictured in the National Press as long ago as 1961. Fishermen have reported their own sitings in the early 60s on this forum. The Trust dismiss these reports as purely 'anecdotal' and without basis of fact.

'The Seahorses are under threat from boating activities' but: 'We have seen unique courting rituals, and as many as 40 pregnant males' errrr? (pregnant males is apparently the way seahorses do it). Wild animals tend not to proliferate if their habitat is disturbed.

'The Seagrass beds are now under threat from the boats anchoring in the bay' (current SHT publicity material) This activity has been going on for at least 60 years, and the number of visitors has not significantly increased - so what has changed? Before that it was a clam trawling ground, and during the war used for tank landing training and experiments(!)

'Steve Trewhella is our project Officer for Studland. ... This was funded by an incredibly generous Heritage grant in May 2009' (SHT website) 'I am not employed by anyone' Steve Trewhella autumn 2009. So who is getting the £28,000 Heritage money?

Ask for information, if you get any response at all it is to brush you aside - 'you do not know what you are talking about' Pursue it, they will start villifying you as a 'rich yottie', and accuse you of disinterest in conservation issues. Take it further and you become an anti eco monster responsible for all the pollution and ills of the world.

It is increasingly obvious that these guys have their own agenda: that is to make of Studland their own private playground, and keep the rest of us out.

I started with an open mind in this debate 2 years ago: Seahorse Trust has very firmly closed it - at least as far as their activities are concerned!

 

[DogWatch]

This site could be useful if evidence is required to show how eel grass has increased in studland over the last 30 years.

Maybe we should start a fighting fund.

http://www.oldaerialphotos.com

Their prices are a bit keen, shame you can't even see a low resolution taster, I was looking for some where I grew up. I am not paying £99 blind for a curiosity.

 

[Searush]

Their prices are a bit keen, shame you can't even see a low resolution taster, I was looking for some where I grew up. I am not paying £99 blind for a curiosity.

Keen? They made my eyes water.

And I'm Kean! (as in "I'm Spartacus"?) Steve K

 

[webcraft]

A Jenny Paton of Poole - I have no idea if this is the same person -

Good luck . . . I'm not sure exactly when idle speculation became a crime, but I will be surprised if you manage to get a solicitor to take this on


- W

 

[Searush]

Good luck . . . I'm not sure exactly when idle speculation became a crime, but I will be surprised if you manage to get a solicitor to take this on


- W

I don't see why not, at £160/hour in the current economic climate, I am sure there will be plenty of qualified people prepared to take his money. I don't expect them to have much success with the brief tho'

I can see his £28k grant going down the Swannee in double time - about one month of Solicitor's time should be enough. Interesting co-incidence (but not that unlikely) that both ladies are referred to as "Jenny" rather than Jennifer, Mrs J, or Ms J Paton. And Paton may be a common local name for all I know. However, given that co-incidence & the geographical location, I don't see that an apology is due. It would seem to be a perfectly reasonable connection to make - although I would doubt its relevance to seahorses.

I am pleased that Neil is able to refute the link, but his track record of other accusations & demonstrating "scientific evidence" on this forum might lead some to check into it further rather than meekly accepting his assertation as I have.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I have been in discussions with my solicitor over the above quote and action is to be taken.

I also have no idea if the Jenny Paton of the Sea Horse trust is the woman against whom the local council carried out a notorious surveillance operation to determine if she had lied about her place of residence on a school place application.*

Please sue me too!


*Full outrage at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...laces-cheat-takes-snooping-council-court.html.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Good Morning, Neil. Thought you'd left us.

But since you're up and about, maybe you'd like to respond to some of the many points that have been raised?

Or maybe not?

I'm particularly interested to know, if it's true that it was a stated objective of the Trust in obtaining funding, what you have done "to promote Marine Conservation and Sustainable Development by helping the Fishermen of the South West to diversify into new markets."