stuart turner or change it???

[manish]

hi guys i have hit a bit of a dilema. i have seen a very nice folkboat that have fallen for but it has an old stuart turner in it. im not sure if i should keep it or change it for a more up to date engine (diesel) as i guess it would be less hassle. but then the stuart turner would look alot better once i have done a bit of work to it. see me dilema!!!
Any advice many thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif cheers

 

[Roach1948]

Change it!

Two reasons - they were always unreliable and second, you don't want petrol in your boat.

 

[albineer]

When I had to use Stuart Turner's on charter boats long long ago when the world was young I hated them. The magneto ignition gave problems when it got damp which was when it was needed most. Many people have said that the development of small marine diesels was one of the significant positive developments in yachting.
There was an article in a recent PBO on restoring a yacht with a Stuart Turner. That will give you a different point of view. He loves his.

 

[sarabande]

Hi Manish, and welcome to the navel of the yachting world.


I had an ST on a YW People's Boat. It had been serviced and looked after, but starting was an art, rather than a science. The engine looked very good in its dark green paint with polished brass bits, but I wasn't very happy with an exhaust pipe lagged with genuine 1960's asbestos !

The Dynastart is a great idea, but technology has moved forward on all marine diesel fronts. You'll be able to find a smaller, more powerful, more reliable, and possibly quieter (?) engine, using a safer fuel.

 

[JREdginton]

Contact Fairway Marine, maldon. If needed get an Amal carb conversion and bobs yer mothers brother. A clean exhaust, correct length, a 2B pencil for doctoring yer plugs from time to time, sleep with yer magneto once a week and it'll not let you down. I lived with a 5P for six years and oince I got used to it's foibles it ran like a treat and never once dropped me in the smelly stuff. Granted it took £300 of carb and some sweat but that was a lot cheaper than a re-engine. They sip petrol and have a loverly exhaust note (IMHO).

[edit] also, learn to kick start it ah-la-bike, saves a lot of ripped knuckles if there is not dyno-start) [/edit]

 

[manish]

i think i saw that article. i dont think he would have enjoyed it so much in a f8-9 with a bad sea state when the ruddy thing wont start. any recomedations for a small diesel???

 

[JREdginton]

[ QUOTE ]
you don't want petrol in your boat[ QUOTE ]


But how many of us carry it for an outboard? Sensible precautions, never board smoking, always pump the bilges.

 

[mickshep]

Put a reconditioned 8hp baqck in my 5 tonner in 2000, runs like a sewing machine, starts every time, also so smooth that it's very kind to an old wooden hull, As for fire risk, the boat had one from new (1946) and she has never burned yet, regards, Mike.

 

[donm]

The best and most reliable Stuart Turner I have ever known is brightly painted and polished, and set as an ornament in a friend's house! Reliable because you KNOW it will not start, rather than suspect it but nevertheless place yourself in a position of reliance upon it starting, as was the caes with the ones that I owned.

Change it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JasB]

I know of a fella who is nuts about Stuart Turners, if you want to sell it...er..and if I can find his number

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Stuart Turners were among the best of the old 2-stroke inboard engines. They were built to last and, given a sensible owner /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif reliable and easy to start.

Their smooth running is a real advantage on an elderly boat where the vibration of a diesel may cause all sorts of problems; such as spewed caulking and loosened fastenings.

This is mine:. 56 years old and runs a treat.

 

[donm]

Mine were so smooth that you could hardly hear them - probably because they were so rarely running. I worked on many of them in the 70s on both my own and friend's boats, but apart from their size and weight could not like them. They were heavy on clutches, fussy on fuel mixture and needed super dry electrics. The twin had a habit of running on one cylinder only, fooling you into believing that it was functioning properly until you put it into gear!

On one boat I replaced the 8HP with a 10HP petrol Ailsa Craig which was beautifully smooth and reliable. And on another boat I replaced with a 7HP Volvo diesel which was underpowered and shook the boat to death. However, there are several small smooth diesels around now that will fit the bill although weight may still be a problem.

If you have the patience then a Stuart Turner may be OK for you, but reliability was not my experience.

 

[Topcat47]

I'd rather hand crank an old ST than my new Yanmar anyday. I agree the Dynastarts are not ideal but they don't have much to contend with. I think the ST's lend a period charm to the right boat and they can be made to run reliably for relatively little cash (c.w re-engining with a diesel anyway.) You can still get spares too, which is always nice.

If you're determined to re-engine, the Beta 12hp twin is probably the best bet as it's a lot smother than small singles and you'd want to be kind to your old boat, but be prepared for a lot of extra gubbins if you go that route.

 

[oldharry]

There were two sorts of Stuarts - good ones and bad ones. If you had a good one you swore by it, relied on it and with a little TLC it never let you down.

On the other hand if you had a bad one, you simply swore at it! It was the most infuriating and unreliable piece of junk ever devised by man - with the possible exception of its outboard counterpart, the Seagull, which was the same; either brilliant or useless.

I knew the fitter of a well known Chichester harbour yard. They fitted Stuarts as standard in production boats, so they bought them by the lorry load. He reckoned in every batch there would be one or two that simply did not work and had to be returned to the makers. No obvious reasons, and apparently even Stuarts themselves could not fathom it.

Unfortunately these engines could be heavy on their crank case seals, which like any two stroke, once they start to leak make the engine totally unreliable. Modern outboards are much the same, but technology has advanced to the point that the seals usually outlive the engine. Seagulls got round it by not having seals as such, but massive bronze bushes which were sealed by the 2 stroke oil - hopefully! This maybe explains why some do and some dont!

I never had clutch problems, but the makers did warn that if you were in the habit of slipping the clutch, which was a metal faced cone arrangement IIRC, you very soon wrecked it. Unfortunately it was one of the easiest ways of controlling the boat in close quarters manoevering, just holding the tram lever against the clutch to give a nudge forward or aft - but it invariably meant early clutch failure.

As to petrol in boats - with the same precautions as with gas, which many boats carry, its no more - or less - dangerous. In any caswe many smaller boats still run quite happily and safely with petrol fuelled outboards.

Would i run a Stuart nowadays? No. There are much better small engines available, so unless it was super reliable (and some were!) I would not be keen. Also spares are expensive and hard to come by unless you live on the east coast, where they are just expensive!

 

[donm]

I fitted a 2 cylinder Yanmar to a Trapper 500 some years ago and it was a bit "agricultural".

My present engine is a 20HP Beta which is really quiet, smooth and a joy - but I agree about the extra gubbins.I still think it is worth it but only if the boat plus engine is worth the money.

 

[JREdginton]

[ QUOTE ]
could be heavy on their crank case seals

[/ QUOTE ]

I am fairly sure Maldon can offer some advice of using modern seals if there are problems in this area.

A general comment on costs, a new small diesel is going to rush you 4-5K by the time it is in, support systems in place, prop, shaft, seals, tank, exhaust, collector, wiring, hoses, engine beds... This more than transforms the rattiest Stuart into a gem. But, horses for courses, me I still like Triumph 3TA's even if the do make yer eyes popout every time it rains

 

[oldfrank]

I'd like to hear from him - got three or four here in various states of disarray. Thy're not quite heavy enough to hold a mooring buoy! Old Frank

 

[JasB]

I will spend my day off hunting for his contact details.

 

[jhughes]

I am rebuilding my P66 at present and it is spread across the bench in its component parts. New gasket set, big end and main bearings, rings, gudgeon pins, seals, paint and odd bits comes to around £450 if you source the parts seperately. (fairway marine are expensive).
Only problem I have is the outer race of one of the big end needle roller bearings, Fairway marine seem to be the only supplier and are out of stock and not looking to restock in the foreseable future, means I will have to machine one from scratch and get it case hardened unless anyone has a serviceable one out there. Machining an outer race is not a problem but I have not found a cost effective way of getting it case hardened yet unless I do it myself with Kasenit, I will try a few test pieces first.
If I were to rebuild again I would think about machining up Metric races for the big end needle roller bearings and then using vastly cheaper metric needle rollers as suggested by another forumite as a mod done on classic british motorcycles.

 

[sarabande]

How come mine never looks as clean and tidy as that ? Nice work ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif