Strain gauges

Are you suggesting that he'll need to measure stress as well as strain?
https://www.bemindfulonline.com/test-your-stress/

More seriously, I had a vague idea that strain-gauge-based anchor alarms were already available - or was it a DIY article in PBO?

Knox Anchor Watch, I think that is the name. Same Knox as the Knox Anchor. Prof Knox wrote lots of articles on anchors for PBO (and maybe YM) from the late 90's to around 2010 (ish). I think there was an article in PBO on his use of a load cell for his anchor alarm.

Your memory is very good!

Jonathan
 
Any way you like. The bolt only needs to engage with the structure where the washer is. There is plenty of room for 2 tiny wires. You could even make them run integral to the bolt.

The bolt will be under tension principally at the interface between the top surface of the keel and the bottom of the hull where it abutts the keel. That's where you would need to mount the strain gauge ...across that keel/hull interface and I can't imagine that there's much space in there in a lateral direction to accommodate the gauge and wires. The real test of keel mounting occurs on accidental grounding (it's happened to me once on hard clay but with no damage incurred) so you'd need constant gauge recording to catch such an event.
 
Knox Anchor Watch, I think that is the name. Same Knox as the Knox Anchor. Prof Knox wrote lots of articles on anchors for PBO (and maybe YM) from the late 90's to around 2010 (ish). I think there was an article in PBO on his use of a load cell for his anchor alarm.

Your memory is very good!

Jonathan

Thank you - it's not too bad for my age, I like to think! :( I had remembered Professor Knox using one in his anchor tests, but did not mention him as I did not recall that he had specifically designed and offered one as an alarm - though I thought someone had. Thanks again for the compliment - and even more for the clarification! :)
 
The gauge won't really measure the strain, more the change in strain. There is likely residual strain when you attach the gauge. It only measures along it's length so unless you know the principal directions you will need to use rosettes and do the maths.
As someone mentioned you will probably need some form of temperature compensation, they are temperature sensitive.
Getting reliable signals and processing them in a hostile environment can be challenging. Last stuff I did with strain gauges I used National Instruments Labview virtual instruments and Excel to log and process the data, a real pain to figure out Labview.
What are you actually trying to achieve? I suspect what you want wouldn't be straightforward for an engineer to do, I would think a non engineer would struggle.
 
Keel bolts would be particularly problematic as the bulk of the stress in the bolt is producing clamping force across the joint. The area of the bolts is small compared to the area of the joint so change in stress in the bolt is small until the clamping force is overcome.(Strain is proportional to stress in the ranges you will be working in.)
 
I take it keel bolts hold the keel on, what is the problem with them?
I meant problematic to get any useful data from a strain gauge because this is a clamped (i.e. pre-stressed) joint so the change in load in the bolt varies very little for large changes in the load on the joint.
 
I agree with others who have worked with them - they are the Devil's own invention! Thinking of the keel bolt example, where would you put the strain gauge? It really needs to go on the shank of the bolt, but that's no good because that's buried in a hole. Then, of course, you'd need at least one on the other side, so that you compensate for any bending load in that plane, and then one on the front and one on the back to read the loads in the other plane. If we leave that aside and assume that we CAN get them on to the bolt (and get them to stick well enough for long enough, and get the wires out from them past the washer and bolt head), then what? You'd tighten up the fastener, inducing (hopefully!) a uniform tension in the shank of the bolt. After that, you go for a sail. I would expect there to be NO change in tension in the bolt under any reasonably forseeable sailing conditions anyway. A bit like cylinder head bolts on cars, I'd have thought that the tension induced by tightening them ought to ALWAYS be greater than anything encountered in normal use, so that there was no cyclic stress on the bolt (to avoid fatigue).

When you get to irregular shapes like a fibreglass hull, that becomes even harder because you would need to "calibrate" your hull by putting known loads into it so that you could see what the strain gauges said at that load (and that direction of load) and try to interpolate between those "calibration" readings when taking your measurements at sea.

That's aside of all the signal conditioning and temperature compensation issues already mentioned.

Other than for very simple, regular shapes with very simple loadings on them, I don't think they'd be any real use.
 
I don't think the keel bolt would be that tricky. You only need a crude measurement of tension i.e. tension remains = bolt ok, tension lost = bolt failed. The strain is only really relevant in one plane in this instance and keel bolt have large non-threaded parts that would easily take a strain gauge. There is no requirement for the main body of the bolt to be burried in a hole. The top and bottom are the only bits transfering force to the structure of the boat and ballast keel respectively.

Imagine an example of Cheeki Rafiki. The often suggested mode of failure was a loss of tension in the keel bolts following a previous grounding. This allowed a slight flexing of the keel which would cause fatigue of the bolts and the surrounding structures as well as incresing shock loads. With a strain gauge you would have detected first the unacceptable force the keel bolts endured in the original grounding. You would then detect the significant drop in strain associated with a 'loose' keel bolt. You would also detect the wavering shock loading as the keel flexed. Compaired to a boat with a satisfacory keel where the strain gauge should read the same all the time, taking into account temperature.

As for the hull. This would be much more tricky and less useful. I did notice, in my research, another boat which had this done but it was for a university research project. I was thinking that as I develop my layup I would make test panels and then subject them to known loads to get an idea of maximum loads and also of fatigue effects. The fatigue would be more difficult as it would require building a machine to make repeated cycles. There would be no particular use other than if we took a significant impact from, for example an ice berg, we would have some indication of whether the hull had reached a critical load. I currently have an idea that I might have an aramid layer on the inside of the layup so it might not be immedicately obvious to the eye that the structure has been weakened.

As I said earlier, geeky stuff and with little overall value other than to satisfy my boundless curiosity. :)
 
Sticking with the thought experiment then. I think a thin compression load cell buried in the bedding compound between the top of the keel and the underside of the hull would be more practical.
 
I think that the most practical device for measuring loss of pre-tension in a keel-bolt would be a large spanner.

You can do it with a tension indicator. Drill a hole down the middle of the bolt, at M6 clearance (say) all the way except for the very end, which is tapped M6. Fit and tighten bolt. Use suitable M6 (say) bolt down predrilled hole with slow-set loctite on the end and tighten it until it just nips a large washer under its head. If the bolt loses tension, the washer goes loose.

Or just spec, tighten and lock the bolts properly in the first place.
 
I don't think the keel bolt would be that tricky. You only need a crude measurement of tension i.e. tension remains = bolt ok, tension lost = bolt failed.
I think it would either tell you that the bolt had failed, or that the layup had compressed, or that the washer under the bolt head had sunk into whatever it butts up against, or that the strain gauges had come unstuck. I've only ever used tham in pairs because otherwise, you can't tell the difference between tension and bending. I've never used them on the shank of a bolt, so I don't know what the twist down the length of the bolt would do to them as the bolt is tightened.
The strain is only really relevant in one plane in this instance and keel bolt have large non-threaded parts that would easily take a strain gauge. There is no requirement for the main body of the bolt to be burried in a hole. The top and bottom are the only bits transfering force to the structure of the boat and ballast keel respectively.
I can't picture that in my mind's eye? Surely there is a tapped hole in the keel, and a plain hole in the bottom of the boat? The keel bolt passes through the boat and into the keel and its head bears against the bottom of the boat? I'm picturing a bolt (say) 20mm in diameter and a hole (say) 21mm in diameter, with the underside of the head of the bolt bearing against a washer and the washer bearing against the inside of the hull. If so, I can't see (a) that there would be enough clearance to put a strain gauge and wires on to the bolt shank and (b) bring the wires back up the hole to the inside of the boat? (Although, as the (now somewhat smug!) owner of an encapsulated keel, I am unfamiliar with the concept of worrying about keel bolts)!

Imagine an example of Cheeki Rafiki. The often suggested mode of failure was a loss of tension in the keel bolts following a previous grounding. This allowed a slight flexing of the keel which would cause fatigue of the bolts and the surrounding structures as well as incresing shock loads. With a strain gauge you would have detected first the unacceptable force the keel bolts endured in the original grounding. You would then detect the significant drop in strain associated with a 'loose' keel bolt. You would also detect the wavering shock loading as the keel flexed. Compaired to a boat with a satisfacory keel where the strain gauge should read the same all the time, taking into account temperature.
Yes, I could see that working, in theory, but in practice, it's asking an awful lot of a strain gauge to stay stuck to a bolt shank for the life of the boat (or at least, the life of the keel bolt)! Hell, I used to have enough trouble getting them to stay stuck to flat plates in a warm, dry lab for several months rather than years! We used to re-calibrate these things once a month, but I don't know that you could reasonably expect the shole system (gauges, wire, connections, amplifier and signal conditioning / readout unit) to stay in calibration for such a long time, but there may be other applications that use load cells for long periods. Surely there are places selling off-the-shelf "load washers" that you can just trap between the head of the bolt and the laminate? (Don't know whether they'd be up to givign a constant reading for (say) 20 years though).

As for the hull. This would be much more tricky and less useful. I did notice, in my research, another boat which had this done but it was for a university research project. I was thinking that as I develop my layup I would make test panels and then subject them to known loads to get an idea of maximum loads and also of fatigue effects. The fatigue would be more difficult as it would require building a machine to make repeated cycles. There would be no particular use other than if we took a significant impact from, for example an ice berg, we would have some indication of whether the hull had reached a critical load. I currently have an idea that I might have an aramid layer on the inside of the layup so it might not be immedicately obvious to the eye that the structure has been weakened.

As I said earlier, geeky stuff and with little overall value other than to satisfy my boundless curiosity. :)

I wonder if you could put thin metal plates with strain gauge rosettes on each side, spanning critical areas of hull and build each end of the plate into the laminate so that you weren't actually trying to measure hull flex directly, but were measuring the EFFECTS of hull flex on a plate that spanned the area of hull you were interested in? For example, a plate a couple of inches long with one end attached to (say) the underside of the deck and the other attached to the hull just below it, so that you could monitor any movement in the hull-to-deck joint by looking at the flexure of the plate?
 
Interesting idea!

From memory I think that FRP structures tend to fail by fracture rather than plastic deformation (correct me if I'm wrong). So in the case of the hull I don't think you will get meaningful strain unless you adopt Avocet's idea of embedded thin metal plates. You could embed thin copper wires into the laminate and just detect whether they are still connected. If you break a wire that would indicate a failure of the laminate at some point along the wire.

WRT keel bolts - the key factor is whether the keel is moving. In which case embedded copper wires might do the trick as long as you can figure out how to run the wires such that they don't corrode, abrade and can be disconnected if necessary.
 
From memory I think that FRP structures tend to fail by fracture rather than plastic deformation (correct me if I'm wrong). So in the case of the hull I don't think you will get meaningful strain unless you adopt Avocet's idea of embedded thin metal plates.

Yes and no. The failure mechanism is complex, but there would still be elastic strains before failure. In GRP, rather than CFRP, those could be pretty big, though, which adds a whole new area of complication to strain measurement.
 
You can do it with a tension indicator. Drill a hole down the middle of the bolt, at M6 clearance (say) all the way except for the very end, which is tapped M6. Fit and tighten bolt. Use suitable M6 (say) bolt down predrilled hole with slow-set loctite on the end and tighten it until it just nips a large washer under its head. If the bolt loses tension, the washer goes loose.

Or just spec, tighten and lock the bolts properly in the first place.
A properly designed fastener system installed and tightened correctly will not come loose or fail unless it is abused by say a collision. In those circumstances I can't really think why you wouldn't check out the relevant bits.
If you are worried and don't want to go the the bother of checking the torque say then the tension indicator as described by JumbleDuck is a good solution.
If you are serious about this contact the engineering department at your local university I suspect they could get a couple of student projects out of this.
 
I agree with comments about the need for proper signal processing of the output from strain-gauges. You need a bridge configuration, which is frequently built-in to a load cell, and to excite it with an AC waveform of a few Volts, from which the load cell will give a few micro-Volts of output. This needs amplifying and measuring using a synchronous detector, aka (in the US at least) as a 'lock-in amplifier'. You can buy them but at a cost of a few 100 £. Perhaps some on e-bay.

It's a perfectly feasible diy project for an electronics geek but it's absolutely not a question of just attach a dvm on the Ohms scale.

However if you want to look at structures (I worked a bit in the 1990's on the signal processing electronics for smart structures) it's probably better to put optical fibres in with the glass fibres of GRP when the hull is being laid/moulded. The transmission of light through the fibre is very much affected by the strain and micro-fracture typical of GRP. It's not that cheap to do however!
 
However if you want to look at structures (I worked a bit in the 1990's on the signal processing electronics for smart structures) it's probably better to put optical fibres in with the glass fibres of GRP when the hull is being laid/moulded. The transmission of light through the fibre is very much affected by the strain and micro-fracture typical of GRP. It's not that cheap to do however!

Optical fibres with Bragg gratings etched on their surface at intervals are used for measuring strain at points along the fibre. These are also used for remote temperature measurements along a fibre [eg used for down-hole temperature surveys in wells]. If the fibre breaks you can also find out where along the length it has broken.

Failure of complicated laminates may involve disbonding of the core which is more difficult to detect by looking at the in-plane strains.
 
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