westhinder
Well-known member
I actually thought she was a cutter.
Mine is definitely meant to be sailed as a sloop. Tacking with the removable stay in place would be a pain and would be quite unkind on the genoa.
Storm sails on deck or below?
- Thread starter Kukri
- Start date
Mine is definitely meant to be sailed as a sloop. Tacking with the removable stay in place would be a pain and would be quite unkind on the genoa.
Kukri
Well-known member
If I wanted to race her properly I would have to race her as a sloop and use the big genoa, but I’m quite happy to potter around with the staysail and Yankee jib.
Bajansailor
Well-known member
We also have a removable inner forestay on our 35' boat - I have heard some refer to this set up as a 'slutter'.
We would always leave the inner forestay in place when using the roller furling genoa on the outer forestay, unless we ever had to short tack - otherwise a tack would consist of rolling up the genoa as we head up into the wind, and then unfurling it on the new tack.
dansaskip
Well-known member
Glad to hear someone else use the term slutter a wonderful old-fashioned term- I have heard some refer to this set up as a 'slutter'.
zoidberg
Well-known member
zoidberg
Well-known member
Interestingly, I was peering at a pair of ORC Certificates for the same modest 'cruising boat' t'other day, which showed that in the builder's 'light ship' configuration it had a calculated AVS of 177.1 degrees.
In cruising trim, a few hundred kilos heavier, the calculated AVS had shrunk to 118.2 degrees.
I'm aware that some race boats cannot get a valid ORC Certificate if they mount a liferaft on the coachroof. Most of us have lots of bolt-on goodies above the waterline,including lots of chain, radar up the mast, furling headsails. Very few even try to compensate by moving weight lower down.
siwhi
Active member
Alas the dinghy, outboard, SUP, fishing gear and dive tanks were absent at the time of picture. And we'd sold the full size dive compressor by then (to fund the habit).
Attachments
zoidberg
Well-known member
Get yon auld Moody in a blow in the Little Minch and she's stagger aboot like a Friday Night Drunk in Sauchiehall Street.
It's mair like a Tinker's Caravan, wi' a' they pots an' pans hanging aff, than an Elegant Chentleman's Concourse Yacht.
Ah see there's a palm tree on the shore. Must be somewhaure exotic - like Helensburgh.....
It's mair like a Tinker's Caravan, wi' a' they pots an' pans hanging aff, than an Elegant Chentleman's Concourse Yacht.
Ah see there's a palm tree on the shore. Must be somewhaure exotic - like Helensburgh.....
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siwhi
Active member
Get yon auld Moody in a blow in the Little Minch and she's stagger aboot like a Friday Night Drunk in Sauchiehall Street.
It's mair like a Tinker's Caravan, wi' a' they pots an' pans hanging aff, than an Elegant Chentleman's Concourse Yacht.
Ah see there's a palm tree on the shore. Must be somewhaure exotic - like Helensburgh.....
She's a nose for distilleries, that's for sure. She's dozed in the shadow of most of the ones on the west coast, (and beyond). She's been about a wee bit too with some rough sailors, but nowhere's fairer than Greenock.
geem
Well-known member
We have twin furlers set up as a Solent rig. 130% genoa on the outer furler and staysail on the inner furler. Its nice to be able to drop to staysail without going on deck.We also have a removable inner forestay on our 35' boat - I have heard some refer to this set up as a 'slutter'.
We would always leave the inner forestay in place when using the roller furling genoa on the outer forestay, unless we ever had to short tack - otherwise a tack would consist of rolling up the genoa as we head up into the wind, and then unfurling it on the new tack.
Short tacking with the genoa can be pain in all but light winds where I can manually pull the genoa around the staysail. Otherwise we just furl it away and let it out on the other tack as you do. Its a lot easier to tack under staysail. Either way, for the sailing we do we wouldn't be without the twin furlers. We have no concerns about going to the mast to reef with granny bars but the thought of going to the bow doesnt fill me with enthusiasm.
We left our trisail somewhere. Being a ketch we never found a need for it. When the weather gets bad we find the staysail and mizzen works or just staysail. We even had a few rolls in it once?
Frank Holden
Well-known member
I have a removable inner forestay which rarely gets removed, 3 hanked storm jibs... 50/100/150 sq ft - long story I am sure I have told before-.
If proceeding on a passage where I think they may be need I hank on two of them...the 50 and one of the other pair.
And run one pair of jib sheets. Halyard is tacked down by the i/forestay so no 'dance of death' when going to hoist one.
Running backstays tensioned up amidships until needed ... using an 'endless whip' . Can be set up without leaving the cockpit
Running down hill in fresh conditions I often find that I will use one of the two smaller storm jibs rather than a deeply furled headsail.
If proceeding on a passage where I think they may be need I hank on two of them...the 50 and one of the other pair.
And run one pair of jib sheets. Halyard is tacked down by the i/forestay so no 'dance of death' when going to hoist one.
Running backstays tensioned up amidships until needed ... using an 'endless whip' . Can be set up without leaving the cockpit
Running down hill in fresh conditions I often find that I will use one of the two smaller storm jibs rather than a deeply furled headsail.
Neeves
Well-known member
Different yacht entirely - ours is a cat and I sail single handed or the 2 of us. We also have good forecasts and have time to take appropriate action. We would not be sailing to windward in much over 20 knots - we would stay at anchor and do a bit more fishing. We sail off the wind - its meant to be a pleasure.
The idea of a trisail and rigging it fleetingly crossed my mind but achieving this 3m above waterline on a bucking yacht was sufficient discouragement. Instead our 3rd reef reduces the main by 75%, and we can achieve this from the cockpit. We have a removable inner forestay which is like others above - permanently attached. We are not racing so a tack is something that might be logged - as they are so infrequent. If the forecast is iffy we remove the 150% Genoa off the furler and replace it with a self tacking No4 and hank on the storm jib to the inner forestay, its lashed to the foredeck with sheet attached. The idea of swanning about on the foredeck for any length of time hanking on a sail on a cat with seas breaking over the same foredeck is not for the me, I'm a proud wimp.
Our LR is in a cage on the transom, if we are inverted access to a LR on the cabin roof would present considerable difficulty. Theoretically our yacht is unsinkable (its never been tested). But we have jackstays, secured with 'U' bolts for and aft under the bridge deck (as well as more conventionally along the side decks etc) and could lash the LR to the inverted hull.
We do get it wrong, the forecasts - we cope.
Jonathan
The idea of a trisail and rigging it fleetingly crossed my mind but achieving this 3m above waterline on a bucking yacht was sufficient discouragement. Instead our 3rd reef reduces the main by 75%, and we can achieve this from the cockpit. We have a removable inner forestay which is like others above - permanently attached. We are not racing so a tack is something that might be logged - as they are so infrequent. If the forecast is iffy we remove the 150% Genoa off the furler and replace it with a self tacking No4 and hank on the storm jib to the inner forestay, its lashed to the foredeck with sheet attached. The idea of swanning about on the foredeck for any length of time hanking on a sail on a cat with seas breaking over the same foredeck is not for the me, I'm a proud wimp.
Our LR is in a cage on the transom, if we are inverted access to a LR on the cabin roof would present considerable difficulty
. Theoretically our yacht is unsinkable (its never been tested). But we have jackstays, secured with 'U' bolts for and aft under the bridge deck (as well as more conventionally along the side decks etc) and could lash the LR to the inverted hull.We do get it wrong, the forecasts - we cope.
Jonathan
newtothis
Well-known member
Where do you buy your steerable wind? I can only find the old-style, mind-of-its-own type that invariably wants to go in the opposite direction to that which I want the boat to go.
Every time I try to sail off the wind, the cartographers go and mess it up by putting a bloody great lump of dry stuff in the way.
Neeves
Well-known member
On the southern part of the east coast of Australia, say south from Brisbane, the winds are either from the north, sea breeze, or the south, fronts. As the fronts develops there is a switch. The fronts come through fairly regularly and you simply wait till they are forecast, tidy up the fishing gear and leave as the front arrives, if you are heading north, and the opposite if you are heading south. To complicate slight we also have the East Australian Current that reaches a peak of 4 knots moving south from the warmer tropical water to the cooler water coming in off the Southern Ocean. The southerly fronts are almost always accompanied by big seas and swells (it can be 11m off Sydney) and down in Tasmania there is a wave rider buoy about half way down the island and it often records 20m swells coming in off the Southern/Indian Oceans.
As I mention sailing is meant to be a pleasure and if you are making a long passage from south, to say 'The Reef' you should not be doing so to a schedule - you choose your weather windows and your safe anchorages and hop from one to the other dependents on the length of time that weather pattern will exist.
You would not attempt to sail against a southerly but might against the sea breeze (and current). If sailing north against the, even with the help of a, dying, southerly, you would sail into the bays and along the beaches to keep out of the current. Coming south you head out to the 100 fathom line and stick in the warmer water.
I simplify - and do agree that inevitably when you want to head south there does appear to be a surfeit of southerly fronts coming through etc.
In the Autumn and winter we have increased frequency of westerlies, coming off the land - and they provide excellent conditions no seas, nor swell and if they are a bit robust you skirt the coast to obtain some shelter.
The fronts are well forecast and can be seen as a series of fronts sweeping across the ocean like the curved hands of a Dali clock and though long term timing can be a bit inaccurate as they get closer the accuracy and size, or force, of the fronts becomes increasingly more accurate. It is possible to make long passages but we are following the coast - there is little excuse to be caught and though good anchorages can be a bit far apart - there is excellent shelter, in bays of the Tasman - so often subject to swell. Th only long passage (with no-where to run), about 36 hours, is Bass Strait - and finding a 48 hour weather window just needs patience (and somewhere to store the fish you are catching
).As I said I do simplify and we were caught in a small storm cell, too small to forecast (the forecast was 25 knots), and sailed from Tasmania to the mainland enjoying 50 knot winds, gusting 55 knot for 8 hours under the 3 reefed main (main reefed to 25%), beam reach, averaging 8 knots. The cat handled it well, seas breaking over the cabin roof, the crew were slightly apprehensive. We cope.
Jonathan
newtothis
Well-known member
Here, in the southern part of the east coast of the UK, say south of Dover, we have winds that are predominantly westerly. But only if you are going west. On returning east, they are predominantly easterly, except when you turn south to France, which sees the wind reliably veer to the south until it then backs to the rare northerlies, which occur only on days you return to the Solent.On the southern part of the east coast of Australia, say south from Brisbane, the winds are either from the north, sea breeze, or the south, fronts. As the fronts develops there is a switch. The fronts come through fairly regularly and you simply wait till they are forecast, tidy up the fishing gear and leave as the front arrives, if you are heading north, and the opposite if you are heading south. To complicate slight we also have the East Australian Current that reaches a peak of 4 knots moving south from the warmer tropical water to the cooler water coming in off the Southern Ocean. The southerly fronts are almost always accompanied by big seas and swells (it can be 11m off Sydney) and down in Tasmania there is a wave rider buoy about half way down the island and it often records 20m swells coming in off the Southern/Indian Oceans.
As I mention sailing is meant to be a pleasure and if you are making a long passage from south, to say 'The Reef' you should not be doing so to a schedule - you choose your weather windows and your safe anchorages and hop from one to the other dependents on the length of time that weather pattern will exist.
You would not attempt to sail against a southerly but might against the sea breeze (and current). If sailing north against the, even with the help of a, dying, southerly, you would sail into the bays and along the beaches to keep out of the current. Coming south you head out to the 100 fathom line and stick in the warmer water.
I simplify - and do agree that inevitably when you want to head south there does appear to be a surfeit of southerly fronts coming through etc.
In the Autumn and winter we have increased frequency of westerlies, coming off the land - and they provide excellent conditions no seas, nor swell and if they are a bit robust you skirt the coast to obtain some shelter.
The fronts are well forecast and can be seen as a series of fronts sweeping across the ocean like the curved hands of a Dali clock and though long term timing can be a bit inaccurate as they get closer the accuracy and size, or force, of the fronts becomes increasingly more accurate. It is possible to make long passages but we are following the coast - there is little excuse to be caught and though good anchorages can be a bit far apart - there is excellent shelter, in bays of the Tasman - so often subject to swell. Th only long passage (with no-where to run), about 36 hours, is Bass Strait - and finding a 48 hour weather window just needs patience (and somewhere to store the fish you are catching
As I said I do simplify and we were caught in a small storm cell, too small to forecast (the forecast was 25 knots), and sailed from Tasmania to the mainland enjoying 50 knot winds, gusting 55 knot for 8 hours under the 3 reefed main (main reefed to 25%), beam reach, averaging 8 knots. The cat handled it well, seas breaking over the cabin roof, the crew were slightly apprehensive. We cope.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-known member
What is really needed is the summation of all the yachts in Kent looking to go west and all those in Cornwall planning to go east - this would provide forecasters with the expected wind direction - being that opposed to the greater numbers. It would be so much more reliable and would not need the huge investment in computational power. They could employ school children to come up with the numbers. There would be a need to find employment for the meteorologists that would be put out of work - but maybe they could direct the school children.
Jonathan
Frank Holden
Well-known member
I've been asked to provide more info on how I set up my running backstays.....
First photo... the system at rest... blue line is the upper part of the running backstay..... red fleck is running backstay tail.
The red 5mm small stuff is the 'whip' for want of a better word.
Small block on toerail can be seen.... it is held clear of the deck by light line - you could use bungee - tied to lower lifeline.
In use it is as shown in this next sketch which should be self explanatory.
Red line is passed through the small toerail block and led back to cockpit.
Red flecked tail is led back through turning block right aft and then to winch.
The two lines are connected.....
To deploy running backstay crank in red fleck.
To stow heave on whip (red line).
Job done...
First photo... the system at rest... blue line is the upper part of the running backstay..... red fleck is running backstay tail.
The red 5mm small stuff is the 'whip' for want of a better word.
Small block on toerail can be seen.... it is held clear of the deck by light line - you could use bungee - tied to lower lifeline.
In use it is as shown in this next sketch which should be self explanatory.
Red line is passed through the small toerail block and led back to cockpit.
Red flecked tail is led back through turning block right aft and then to winch.
The two lines are connected.....
To deploy running backstay crank in red fleck.
To stow heave on whip (red line).
Job done...
Neeves
Well-known member
To add to Frank's arrangement - when we had runners
An issue was that the active runner is under tension and behaves itself, the free runner is available to flail about and hit someone. We had a small block quite high up on the central, backstay (it was nota split inverted 'V' backstay. The small block was a bit above head height. the two runner blocks, port and starboard, were interconnected with bungy, 8mm (and the small block up the back stay sized to suit). When the active runner was under tension it hoisted the lazy block on the unused runner up to the little block on the backstay and kept it safely out of the way. The bungy was sized such that you could pull the lazy runner in by hand tension, and as the tack was made, drop the active backstay and tension the new runner with the winch - exactly as Frank has drawn. As you tension the new runner, and freed the old one the block was 'automatically' hoisted upto the block on the backstay.
We now have a similar system for our headsail sheets to stop the lazy sheet become entangled in the mast based winches (which is a common problem on multihulls).
DIY Rigging Hacks - Practical Sailor
Jonathan
Kukri
Well-known member
Same system.
