Storm sails on deck or below?

[Kukri]

In the days of hanked headsails, one had the next sail down hanked under the sail in use, bagged and lashed on deck.

I have liked to carry the spitfire staysail and the trysail on deck, hanked on / with the slides in the track, and bagged with the sheets in the bag, then lashed down carefully.

But am I right?

I suppose a lot may depend on the weight of water that goes over the deck?

 

[westhinder]

I only get the staysail on deck if I seriously expect to use it. Different set up of course, as the staysail is set on a removable forestay and the genoa has a foam luff and remains very effective with a couple of rolls.
This means the staysail is used very rarely, as it is only needed in circumstances where I would be doubting whether I really want to go out. ?

 

[LittleSister]

Presumably it will depend on how often you plan on using them, and the size and capability of your crew.

as it is only needed in circumstances where I would be doubting whether I really want to go out. ?

I'm with him ^^^ on this.

I'll admit to only having used storm sails twice, as far as I can remember, but then I usually sail single-handed or short-handed.

The last time was 10 years or so ago, when I put up the storm jib on a new to me boat, just to see if it fitted and the standard jib-sheet leads worked. I then wafted around the Solent in a Force 2 gusting 3! ?

The previous time was on a friend's boat, also in light airs but in a friendly race. We rummaged around in the bowels of the boat for the storm sails he'd got long before with a view to a round-the-world cruise. We then rigged them, in addition to the plain sails, as a staysail between the two (unstayed) masts, and as water-sails beneath the two booms.

Now I come to think of it, I've also rigged up a storm jib as a sunshade over the cockpit when at anchor.

Strangely, these uses don't seem to be featured in 'Heavy Weather Sailing'.

 

[dom]

I'm in the on deck and preset camp for jibs whenever possible. Heaving weather upwind sails being either an inner-freeflying #4 (OSR) jib or a storm jib using dynema 2:1 halyard and an 8:1 tack-tackle.

I can keep the luff bolt tight like this and the sails set well.

Each is deployed from its own dedicated continuous furler; the #4 being good to about 35kts TWS, then it's down to the storm sail.

Personally I find the foredeck a rough old place in a blow and really like being able to wind in the genny and set the chosen sail which is hopefully ready to go. It also means you're much more likely to switch over when appropriate and not damage a bigger jib by pressing it outside its envelope.

Final suggestion, arm yourself with a pair of kneepads and wear them beneath your oilies. Makes life much easier!

As for trysails - I hate them. They set like trash for upwind work, are pigs to sort out, horrible things IMHO. Never used one in anger, preferring a 4th reef instead. Once again I preset this where possible by cannibalising the #1 or #2 reefing lines well in advance.

Just my tuppence worth.

 

[Kukri]

Thank you for the knee pads trick!

I have a well domesticated trysail which sets on its own full length track (unlike the mainsail track, which is PTFE and makes a huge difference, this one is common or garden, but there is no boom), but it’s a bit knackered and on the list to be replaced as I prefer to have one that can go uphill.

Three deep reefs with dedicated lines.

 

[capnsensible]

I'm not sure it matters which technique you use. The key for me is to have rigged it all over and over again before you need it. And if it looks like you are gonna need it, rig it early. ?

 

[michael_w]

I hate having unnecessary stuff on the deck to fall over/get swept overboard. I guess it's my racing background, I can just about tolerate a long boat hook which won't stow anywhere else. Otherwise the decks are clear.

So I'm of the keep the storm sails below until they are required. If it's that windy you'll get the old sail off or furled before setting the next one, effectively a bare-headed sail change.

I like trysails too. Either sheeted with the spinnaker sheets - good for down wind with the boom lashed to the deck, or as a Swedish mainsail and using the boom for upwind work. Saves your mainsail flogging itself to bits in a gale and if you are unfortunate to shred your main at least you've got something to hoist abaft the mast.

 

[dom]

Thank you for the knee pads trick!

I have a well domesticated trysail which sets on its own full length track (unlike the mainsail track, which is PTFE and makes a huge difference, this one is common or garden, but there is no boom), but it’s a bit knackered and on the list to be replaced as I prefer to have one that can go uphill.

Three deep reefs with dedicated lines.

One more tip which another forumite once suggested:

1. Arm yourself with a Petzl GriGri or other descender device:
2. Rig one or two centre jackstay(s) using braided line(s).
3. Attach a carabiner to another length of line, passing the other end through the GriGri, which is then attached to your harness/LJ using another carabiner.
4. Clip the carabiner to the jackstay and head on forward.
5. When you get to where you want, just pull the harness line through the GriGri to hold yourself in nice and snug.
6. You can't fall off now and you won't get knocked to bits.
7. When sorted, allow some line back through the GriGri and head back to the cockpit!

This technique is especially good at the mast if you don't have granny bars. Just attach the harness-line carabiner to a strong mast point and haul it in until your nicely braced

 

[capnsensible]

I hate having unnecessary stuff on the deck to fall over/get swept overboard. I guess it's my racing background, I can just about tolerate a long boat hook which won't stow anywhere else. Otherwise the decks are clear.

So I'm of the keep the storm sails below until they are required. If it's that windy you'll get the old sail off or furled before setting the next one, effectively a bare-headed sail change.

I like trysails too. Either sheeted with the spinnaker sheets - good for down wind with the boom lashed to the deck, or as a Swedish mainsail and using the boom for upwind work. Saves your mainsail flogging itself to bits in a gale and if you are unfortunate to shred your main at least you've got something to hoist abaft the mast.

Of course that discounts the modern cruiser with dinghy on Davits, big arch with aerials and solar panels, life raft, life rings, Danbuoy, wind vane steering, wind generator, plank for some marinas not yet visited and at least ten diesel jerry cans. And a dog....?

 

[Kukri]

Of course that discounts the modern cruiser with:

dinghy on Davits, (no)
big arch with aerials and solar panels, (no)
life raft, (valise in self draining locker)
life rings, (guilty)
Danbuoy, (Jonbuoy on rails)
wind vane steering, (guilty)
wind generator, (only when parked)
plank for some marinas not yet visited (no)
and at least ten diesel jerry cans. (no)
And a dog... NO!!!?

Garden seat on pushpit? Mushroom farm of probably redundant aerials on pushpit? If I were to take the garden seat off, there would be a mutiny. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Gawd knows what that lot does to the angle of vanishing stability......?

 

[michael_w]

What about all the windage from the dodgers. stern arch/children's climbing frame cockpit oxygen tent etc? The Americans have an acronym for it COTB - Crap On the Back.

 

[Kukri]

Gawd knows what that lot does to the angle of vanishing stability......?

You forgot the bicycles. And the big outboard.

 

[Poignard]

You forgot the bicycles. And the big outboard.

Don't forget the BBQ!

 

[Kukri]

One more tip which another forumite once suggested:

1. Arm yourself with a Petzl GriGri or other descender device:
2. Rig one or two centre jackstay(s) using braided line(s).
3. Attach a carabiner to another length of line, passing the other end through the GriGri, which is then attached to your harness/LJ using another carabiner.
4. Clip the carabiner to the jackstay and head on forward.
5. When you get to where you want, just pull the harness line through the GriGri to hold yourself in nice and snug.
6. You can't fall off now and you won't get knocked to bits.
7. When sorted, allow some line back through the GriGri and head back to the cockpit!

This technique is especially good at the mast if you don't have granny bars. Just attach the harness-line carabiner to a strong mast point and haul it in until your nicely braced

There’s just one problem with this excellent advice:

The sailing world is divided into climbers and non-climbers. Non- climbers like me know what a gri-gri looks like and have some vague idea of what it might be for, but climbers have a code of omertà and never explain what ascenders and descenders do, still less how to use them, no doubt for fear that the inexpert will kill themselves.?

 

[Iliade]

My wife dropped me from 15m up a wall with a Gri-Gri! The scars from grabbing the rising rope have faded but it took quite a while before I was happy to be belayed by her again ;0) And I bought it to make it easier for the kids to belay...

Back on subject, I can only just get the bagged 'working' staysail through the companionway. I certainly wouldn't care to be struggling with it in storm conditions, it would have gone below sometime previously. In a rising forecast the 'storm' staysail would be hanked on and up from when the furling genoa was down to about 30%.

I will admit to looking 'traditional' (i.e. a slob) with sails lashed to the guardrails from time to time though.

I haven't got a trysail for this boat yet

 

[Kukri]

The previous owners had a twelve man canister liferaft in a substantial frame made from stainless tubing between the fore hatch and the mast. I was going to abolish this, before anyone trapped their leg in it, but then I noticed that it tends to hold the deflated dinghy and the spitfire staysail, and it makes a handrail, so it has stayed. It is not a thing of beauty.

 

[dansaskip]

I only get the staysail on deck if I seriously expect to use it. Different set up of course, as the staysail is set on a removable forestay and the genoa has a foam luff and remains very effective with a couple of rolls.
This means the staysail is used very rarely, as it is only needed in circumstances where I would be doubting whether I really want to go out. ?

Very interested to read westhinder comments as its very different to my practise of always hoisting and using the staysail first (its hanked on with piston hanks) and then unrolling the yankee. As he says different set up, my forestay for staysail is fixed.
I'll confess when I first started with a cutter rig after sailing a sloop for many years it was the other way around but with time and sailing miles it now seems to make more sense to always use the staysail and that and a deeply reefed main for when the winds are really strong gives me a controllable rig.
Yes I have a storm stay sail too and to answer the original posters question it stays below until needed, and I have found occasion to just run under that alone.

 

[mjcoon]

The previous owners had a twelve man canister liferaft in a substantial frame made from stainless tubing between the fore hatch and the mast. I was going to abolish this, before anyone trapped their leg in it, but then I noticed that it tends to hold the deflated dinghy and the spitfire staysail, and it makes a handrail, so it has stayed. It is not a thing of beauty.

A spare leg could come in handy...

 

[Kukri]

Very interested to read westhinder comments as its very different to my practise of always hoisting and using the staysail first (its hanked on with piston hanks) and then unrolling the yankee. As he says different set up, my forestay for staysail is fixed.
I'll confess when I first started with a cutter rig after sailing a sloop for many years it was the other way around but with time and sailing miles it now seems to make more sense to always use the staysail and that and a deeply reefed main for when the winds are really strong gives me a controllable rig.
Yes I have a storm stay sail too and to answer the original posters question it stays below until needed, and I have found occasion to just run under that alone.

I came to a sloop with removable forestay from a lifetime of cutters, so I do as danaskip does and treat her as a cutter. I very seldom stow the inner forestay, and I use a hanked staysail on it.