Storm Jib -Coding for Charter

[VicMallows]

I've been asked a question by someone who is just about to place an order for a new boat (35ft) destined for charter purposes and which will require coding.........

"the code specifies that a storm jib be provided".

I fully approve of the idea of carrying a storm jib; but what on earth will you do with it if the boat has a roller reefing genoa, and does not have an inner forestay?
Surely in conditions requiring the jib, the last thing you would want to do is try to remove the furling genoa?

Am I missing something?

Vic

 

[alienzdive]

Without knowing the full code, however I would assume that the furling head sail can be rolled in to storm jib size.

 

[alienzdive]

And also as stupid as it may sound, some times common sense is over ridden with red tape. Whether a storm jib can easily be hauled and retrieved. If regulations require a storm sail to be carried on board, just having one wrapped away below decks is sufficient, reguardless of practicality.

 

[webcraft]

A sailing school boat I know has a wire luff storm jib that can be flown on a halliard, which is a sensible compromise between the letter and spirit of the code. If the wire luff is long enough a reasonable tension can be achieved - I have seen windward progress made with this arrangement in 30+ knots, although a removable inner forestay is obviously a better idea.

Another option is a twin luff groove furling headsail foil which allows you to drop the genny and put a storm jib up, but this is not so good unless you have plenty of warning, as getting a 140% genny down in a gale is not going to be much fun.

- Nick

 

[mireland]

The coding process is based in good practice but like anything formal it becomes inflexible. The coding surveyor will definitely want to see that there is a storm jib and a sensible provision for setting it. Most people accept that a roller reefing genny will not cope in storm conditions however much it is rolled in. The cloth is too light for one thing.

The wire luff option using a tensioned halyard will be acceptable but is not preferred. They will most likely want a block and tackle at deck level to provide the tension.

A secondary forestay is the preferred option but is expensive.

In many respects in terms of meeting the standards it is easiest to go for the Gale type storm jib. On of these was reviewed favourably in the latest 'sailing Today' It costs £450 but this is far lass than a secondary forestay and less messy than a tensioned wire luff system. This will meet standards but involve least faffing about. IMHO it will also serve purpose in a tight spot.

Coding is a game that needs to be played. In most respects it is highly sensible and highly regarded. In other respects it gets it wrong but we must live with that to protect those who charter.

 

[TigaWave]

Firstly he or she should get a copy of the code so that they know what alterations will need to made to their boat. (some coding surveyors will recomend easy solutions for them but they can be more expensive for the owners)

The actual code for storm sails is...
25.1 Efficient storm sails should be carried which are capable of taking the vessel to windward in heavy weather

This is debatable.

Why would you not want a boat that can go to wind in F8? the roller just doesn't provide the sail shape (flat) or strength for these conditions.
An inner forestay is a good addition to the basic spec the boat comes with. On mine it could be attached just behind the furler and left there, with storm sail hanked on but tied down ready to go.

Most alterations for the code will improve the boat in terms of safe operation, from the spec that comes from the factory.

 

[jh001ace]

I have just bought a Beneteau 331 which is coded. The storm jib had a zip up the luff which goes over the fully furled headsail which then can be hoisted. This is how the previous owner explained it to me- not tested yet thgough. It was made by one of the sail companies in the Hamble. When I'm next on the boat I will note their no. and pass it on if you are interested in this type of arrangement.

 

[andy_wilson]

Absolutely not on both counts. Roll a furler down to storm jib size and it's shape will not promote progress to windward, and the sailcloth will be about 10 grades too light for it to last the distance.

 

[andy_wilson]

You are right, by the time the wind is up it would be a work of folly to fully unfurl the genoa and hand it.

Then you need a storm jib that fits a luff groove. Try getting that hoisted in 25 knots or more.

Hoisting a jib with a sleeve to wrap around the furled headsail is said to be difficult in those conditions too.

Setting a jib with wire luff 'flying' is fraught with problems for obvious (same) reasons.

A removable inner forestay is arguably the best, though expensive option, particularly when the foredeck needs strengthening to take the loads.

I have an extra halyard of wire, attaches to the stemheadfitting just behind the furler (the drum has a slot to accomodate the wire). Tensioned hard it allows the jib to be tamed whilst being hoisted. Extra tension on the wire-luffed jib is JUST enough to keep the luff from sagging away too much, and lets the sail do it's job.

 

[VicMallows]

Great posts so far .. please keep them coming and I'll pass on.

We seem to be getting down to the bureaucracy/make sure no one's to blame culture again.

We are talking about a boat which will probably stay in the Solent, and at most venture to France.

I certainly don't have a storm jib, but equaly won't be crossing the channel without a good forecast.

Vic

 

[jimi]

IMHO .. the only way you'll use a storm jib on a roller reefing boat is with a hanked on storm jib on an emergency forestay. Likewise with a trysail .. unless you've got a separate mast track.. forget it. Otherwise they're just surplus weight!

 

[Sailfree]

Both my boats were charter coded and had furling genoas. The genoa is tied off in furled position, The sheets untied. The storm jib has ties that go round the furled genoa with beads so that it rolls up the furled genoa using the 2nd genoa halyard.
Obviously a releasable inner forstay is better but not an option on most AWB's that are chartered. Sheets are transfered to the storm jib before hoisting!

 

[Gunfleet]

I have this 'second forestay' arrangement inherited with the boat. You have to kneel on the foredeck and feed a cotter pin through the hole in the fitting. It takes both hands. I've never done it in a storm and I never want to! I reckon if you are going to use it in earnest above F7 you need netting on the foredeck guardails.

 

[jimi]

Think the answer there is a highfield lever rather than a cotter pin.
interesting article here