Storm in a tea cup.

[PilotWolf]

Another case where what was reported in the press was slightly out of line with the facts. This was the RNLI statement:


Statement regarding former Scarborough coxswain

Press statement attributed to Adrian Carey, RNLI Head of Lifesaving

Scarborough’s volunteer Coxswain was stood down for serious safety breaches that put lives at risk.
While we can’t go into all the details, we can say that the Coxswain led an unofficial exercise in which he took Scarborough’s Shannon class lifeboat to sea with untrained passengers on board and without enough qualified crew members. From the investigation evidence, it is also clear that the untrained passengers on board were given operational control of the lifeboat in poor weather conditions and strong winds.

The lack of a full crew meant the lifeboat was not available for rescue duties and the Coastguard – who coordinate rescues at sea - was not informed that the lifeboat was ‘off service.’ If the lifeboat was required for rescue, it would first have had to return to the lifeboat station, disembark the passengers, and pick up qualified crew, delaying the rescue launch considerably and potentially risking lives.

This was not a simple administrative oversight - crew, passengers, the lifeboat and the RNLI were all placed in a vulnerable position as a result of the Coxswain’s actions.

This series of serious breaches ultimately put lives at risk – the lives of the crew, passengers and anyone who needed to be rescued from the sea that day. No contingency plan was in place in the case of an emergency call.

The investigation into the incident was conducted by experienced RNLI managers and was fair, robust and thorough. The decision to stand down the coxswain was not made lightly – the RNLI recognises that he has served at Scarborough lifeboat station for many years, however it is crucial that all our volunteers accept and meet the required standards of behaviour which enable us to operate a safe and inclusive emergency service.

All charities and emergency services are, quite rightly, subject to scrutiny and must tackle poor behaviour and unsafe practices quickly and effectively. The RNLI takes its responsibilities very seriously.

We are proud of our 238 lifeboat stations and the thousands of volunteers who operate them, but on the occasions when we find required standards are not being met, we do sometimes have to make difficult decisions.

This decision was made by RNLI management and we’d ask people to continue to support the dedicated volunteers at Scarborough lifeboat station, who are working with us and are ready to save lives when the pager goes, despite the current difficult circumstances.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but my interpretation of your posts suggest that you maybe a manager? That is not a critism given that in all organizations managers are of varying quality -just as are employees and volunteers.

Your posts seem to come across as the official side of the stories.

W.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but my interpretation of your posts suggest that you maybe a manager? That is not a critism given that in all organizations managers are of varying quality -just as are employees and volunteers.

Your posts seem to come across as the official side of the stories.

W.

A very fair question.
No, I'm not a manager, I'm a helmsman on an Atlantic 85, and have been carrying a pager around for 25+ years. Been there, done it, and still doing it today.

I don't mean to come across as the official voice of the RNLI, which obviously I'm not. And neither do I think that they get things right every time. No organisation does.

However I find it very frustrating to read comments on here unjustly slagging them off, based on nothing more than a one-sided story accompanied by the obligatory sad-face picture in the Daily Fail.

 

[Graham376]

If 0.01% of the 'audience' don't find the banter funny, it is banned is it? Does that mean sour faced people can rule the majority? A genuine question, not looking for a row.

My own view is that if an individual (whichever sex) feels out of step/uncomfortable with the majority, then they may well be in the wrong environment. OTOH if their discomfort is due to being picked on, then it's not acceptable.

Since leaving school 57 years ago, I've worked in many different environments from motor trade & plant hire where normal workplace banter would make many blush, to office environment where males were vastly outnumbered by females and believe me women can be very crude and suggestive but men are far less likely to complain. Our local life boat crew includes females and they can certainly stand their ground without management backup.

 

[penberth3]

My own view is that if an individual (whichever sex) feels out of step/uncomfortable with the majority, then they may well be in the wrong environment...

So you're happy to exclude minorities? You need to enter the 21st century, that's my view.

 

[Graham376]

So you're happy to exclude minorities? You need to enter the 21st century, that's my view.

Minorities should not be excluded and I have never suggested it but, it's time the tide changed in favour of the majority.

 

[PilotWolf]

A very fair question.
No, I'm not a manager, I'm a helmsman on an Atlantic 85, and have been carrying a pager around for 25+ years. Been there, done it, and still doing it today.

I don't mean to come across as the official voice of the RNLI, which obviously I'm not. And neither do I think that they get things right every time. No organisation does.

However I find it very frustrating to read comments on here unjustly slagging them off, based on nothing more than a one-sided story accompanied by the obligatory sad-face picture in the Daily Fail.

Thank you.

Your experience of volunteering is probably what most expect and experience. Unfortunately it seems for whatever reason this is no longer the case at some stations. Maybe in the same way people including me, are more likely to post a (singular) negative review than a positive one.

W..

 

[<152587>]

No. I was just wondering if like most of these 'offended' issues it'd work both ways. Certainly in my old ambulance service days the mechanics were made to remove the calendars mentioned above and that was back in early 200x. Yet I still see things that are deemed acceptable until the gender/skin color/race/etc. is reversed.

I reported a photo on an RNLI station's page a few years back as it was offensive (clearly visible male genitals in skintight thin Lycra). The response from the RNLI was it was out of their control as a member of the public posted it to the station's official page and it was taken during a public fundraiser.

I have personal experience of the RNLI, which I will NOT be disclosing here, but there are some serious issues on stations, failings of managers and huge wastes of donations

PW.

Very well put. I refuse to donate now for the very reason. Seen it many times in industry, the beast becomes uncontrollable.

 

[longjohnsilver]

A very fair question.
No, I'm not a manager, I'm a helmsman on an Atlantic 85, and have been carrying a pager around for 25+ years. Been there, done it, and still doing it today.

I don't mean to come across as the official voice of the RNLI, which obviously I'm not. And neither do I think that they get things right every time. No organisation does.

However I find it very frustrating to read comments on here unjustly slagging them off, based on nothing more than a one-sided story accompanied by the obligatory sad-face picture in the Daily Fail.

Thankyou, both for your service and providing an informed view of the RNLI. There are always two sides to every story.

 

[Mark-1]

Another case where what was reported in the press was slightly out of line with the facts. This was the RNLI statement:


Statement regarding former Scarborough coxswain

Press statement attributed to Adrian Carey, RNLI Head of Lifesaving

Scarborough’s volunteer Coxswain was stood down for serious safety breaches that put lives at risk.
While we can’t go into all the details, we can say that the Coxswain led an unofficial exercise in which he took Scarborough’s Shannon class lifeboat to sea with untrained passengers on board and without enough qualified crew members. From the investigation evidence, it is also clear that the untrained passengers on board were given operational control of the lifeboat in poor weather conditions and strong winds.

The lack of a full crew meant the lifeboat was not available for rescue duties and the Coastguard – who coordinate rescues at sea - was not informed that the lifeboat was ‘off service.’ If the lifeboat was required for rescue, it would first have had to return to the lifeboat station, disembark the passengers, and pick up qualified crew, delaying the rescue launch considerably and potentially risking lives.

This was not a simple administrative oversight - crew, passengers, the lifeboat and the RNLI were all placed in a vulnerable position as a result of the Coxswain’s actions.

This series of serious breaches ultimately put lives at risk – the lives of the crew, passengers and anyone who needed to be rescued from the sea that day. No contingency plan was in place in the case of an emergency call.

The investigation into the incident was conducted by experienced RNLI managers and was fair, robust and thorough. The decision to stand down the coxswain was not made lightly – the RNLI recognises that he has served at Scarborough lifeboat station for many years, however it is crucial that all our volunteers accept and meet the required standards of behaviour which enable us to operate a safe and inclusive emergency service.

All charities and emergency services are, quite rightly, subject to scrutiny and must tackle poor behaviour and unsafe practices quickly and effectively. The RNLI takes its responsibilities very seriously.

We are proud of our 238 lifeboat stations and the thousands of volunteers who operate them, but on the occasions when we find required standards are not being met, we do sometimes have to make difficult decisions.

This decision was made by RNLI management and we’d ask people to continue to support the dedicated volunteers at Scarborough lifeboat station, who are working with us and are ready to save lives when the pager goes, despite the current difficult circumstances.

To be fair the press articles I can find on this are not too far out of line with the RNLI's version, except for tone.

FWIW to me it seems the dismissal in this case *does* seem a bit harsh. He claims he told lifeboat operations manager & deputy launch authority he was going. Feels like it might be their job to inform the Coastguard the lifeboat was off service. Then there's his long service to take into account. No doubt he was wrong and bang to rights, but I'd have thought a final warning might be a better way to handle this stated incident.

But then the press articles hint that maybe he wasn't coping with the way the RNLI works today, so perhaps in this case the press is providing better information than the RNLI and the RNLI needed a way to let him go.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Minorities should not be excluded and I have never suggested it but, it's time the tide changed in favour of the majority.

It has. We men are in the minority.

 

[KREW2]

People always tell stories in such a way which will help their point of view.
The Mail try to put the blame on an over zealous "Safeguarding officer"
The RNLI just respond with management speak, and say the pictures shown were fakes.
I suppose we will not be able to see them, and make up our own minds as to how bad the mugs were.

The fact that other crew have walked in support shows these guys can't be all bad.

 

[dogleg]

To be fair the press articles I can find on this are not too far out of line with the RNLI's version, except for tone.

FWIW to me it seems the dismissal in this case *does* seem a bit harsh. He claims he told lifeboat operations manager & deputy launch authority he was going. Feels like it might be their job to inform the Coastguard the lifeboat was off service. Then there's his long service to take into account. No doubt he was wrong and bang to rights, but I'd have thought a final warning might be a better way to handle this stated incident.

But then the press articles hint that maybe he wasn't coping with the way the RNLI works today, so perhaps in this case the press is providing better information than the RNLI and the RNLI needed a way to let him go.

exercises have to be planned with a form filled out giving time location aim (anchor drill, first aid etc) with crew list

on launching LB gives this info to CG with usually 30m ops normal cheques

two original crew for what ever reason pulled out so 2 passengers were taken who should sign an indemnity form, was this done


the answer to the following questions with enable all to come to a judgement

how many qualified LB crew were on board?
was the CG informed LB was on exercise?
was it declared non SAR capable or SAR capable if the CG were aware?
what crew list was given and was it correct? If answer to no 2 above is no then probably answer to this is no
under what circumstances did the passengers take "operational control" of the LB?

has the coxswain done this before and was he given a verbal warning?

LB LOM was advised of original purpose but according to LP was surprised when he returned to town as to what had happened.

Some reports suggest coxswain was given the chance to agree a date for his retirement therby keeping all this quiet but he refused
on his FB page coxswain call all allegations rubbish and that there was plot to get rid of him
the offence in question happened late last year according to sources

FWIW Scarborough ALB is as I write towing a vessel back to port Whitby ALB launched 2 days ago and St Helier ALB has launched several times recently the last being 2130 last night

finally the mug photos published in the pressed may not be the same as the offending mugs according to some sources and sexual content was apparently put on social media concerning the female RNLI employee

 

[DownWest]

So who put the photo of the mug in the Mail? It was hardly smutty and would not have made it in the average garage a few years ago. I assumed it was correct as it had the head of one of the guys transposed on to the girls body.
If it was put up by the 'defendants' to make their case look better, then not so good.

Does sound like it was the escalation that caused the row, not the original point.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So who put the photo of the mug in the Mail? It was hardly smutty and would not have made it in the average garage a few years ago. I assumed it was correct as it had the head of one of the guys transposed on to the girls body.

There are a couple of clues at the bottom of the picture, including "Shutterstock" and "mock-up".

 

[dogleg]

So who put the photo of the mug in the Mail? It was hardly smutty and would not have made it in the average garage a few years ago. I assumed it was correct as it had the head of one of the guys transposed on to the girls body.
If it was put up by the 'defendants' to make their case look better, then not so good.

Does sound like it was the escalation that caused the row, not the original point.

the RNLI CEO has stated the mugs depicted in the press are not the same as the original offending mugs which you would not be able to buy in a shop of course like the press he could be making it up


ps : it has also be said that the two crew were offered the chance to destroy the offending mugs and carry on apparently they refused


Whitby boat was out again last night

 

[DownWest]

There are a couple of clues at the bottom of the picture, including "Shutterstock" and "mock-up".

Thanks, missed that.