Stop cocks - to close or not ?

[Rivers & creeks]

One of the boats in our clubs took on a quite lot of water a while ago. Fortunately someone noticed it was floating bit low, but this isn't obvious until there is quite a lot of water inside.
Problem was, it had been left for some time with the engine cooling water seacock open. Apparently there was a pinhole leak in a hose pipe.

All cocks closed when leaving the boat, a real pain for two of them but it has the added benefit of keeping the action smooth and doing a visual check. The exception is the engine intake because it has a huge anti-syphon loop and is thick new pipe double clipped. The toilets are Jabsco type so no way would I leave the cocks open to those things unattended! I deliberately didn't fit anti-syphon loops as I think they are the uggliest intrusion in a bathroom, I saw a picture recently of a heads with the seacocks on the bare painted hull (good practice) but with two huge anti-syphon loops - what's the point? Just close the seacocks when you've done the business. The whole anti-syphon in the heads thing seems a bit daft anyway, a Jabsco is a bit vulnerable but it's good enough if I'm actually on board.

As for the quote above - an auto bilge pump with a loud siren alarm protects against that one.

 

[jwilson]

You won't notice if you're sailing and everyone is in the cockpit.

And even if someone is below, if the water is already over the sole plates, you are in a heap of trouble.

I think you will notice, and trouble yes - heap - no.

Been there done that, and the first time was in the cockpit of an unfamiliar heavy old wooden gaff ketch. I was just thinking "....she's really sluggish" - stepped down into a dark cabin to put the kettle on - into 18" of water - well above cabin soles. An hour's very hard pumping ensued. Couldn'yt just bucket out into the cockpit as the cockpit was not self-draining. Never in any danger of sinking though. Turned out planking seams had opened up - first sail and heeled over after black hull sides long static moored.

People panic about taking out a log impeller, letting in a few pints. It really does take quite a lot to sink a boat.

 

[isha]

I almost lost a yacht which I had just bought by closing a sea cock. Boat on a swinging mooring and one stormy day the anchor locker on the foredeck filled with water. Unknown to me, the previous owner and the surveyor, the locker had not been sealed properly to the underside of the deck. The locker drainage was by a pipe from the bottom of the locker through the fore cabin to a sea cock well under the water line. For the integrity of the boat when unattended on the mooring and in my ignorance I closed the sea cock. You've worked it out by now. The spray coming in over the bow had direct access to the inside of the boat. She had settled low in the water before it was noticed. Thankfully the engine was ok. Batteries and nearly everything else was ditched.
Dave

 

[pvb]

I don't close the seacocks, although I do make a point of operating them a couple of times a year to ensure they still work. My boat has cockpit drains, so I have to leave those seacocks open - if I'm happy to do that, why bother closing the others? After all, the water pressure in the pipes is minimal. As long as the seacocks and pipework are in good condition, there's no significant risk involved in leaving seacocks open.

 

[prv]

You won't notice if you're sailing and everyone is in the cockpit.
And even if someone is below, if the water is already over the sole plates, you are in a heap of trouble

I think you will notice, and trouble yes - heap - no.

We didn't notice when it happened to us. Not until the gas alarm started going off, presumably due to the sensor being flooded. The water was level with the bunk tops at that point; I don't know how high it would have got before we noticed if the alarm hadn't caused us to slide back the hatch for a look.

Agree that sinking wasn't imminent at that point though.

Pete

 

[stevensuf]

All closed as well bar the galley sink which is used for the dehumidifier drain

 

[vyv_cox]

We open ours in April and close them in October. I operate the Blakes ones occasionally to keep them moving. We are mostly aboard during this time but don't close them if we go elsewhere for up to a few days. They don't leak or burst when we are aboard, so why should they when we aren't?

 

[prv]

They don't leak or burst when we are aboard, so why should they when we aren't?

I guess the argument is that if they *did* leak when you were aboard, you could do something about it before the boat sank.

Likelihood the same, severity of consequences lower, therefore lower overall risk.

That said, I leave my seacocks open as most of them are a bugger to get at.

Pete

 

[haydude]

Is there any good reason to interfere with an open cock ?
I ask because I've always been in the habit of leaving them open and the other day a chap who was interested in buying closed the heads outlet and then opened - later I discovered that it was dripping and continued to drip when closed again.

Every surveyor recommends to exercise the sea-cocks at least once a month, which is clearly to avoid seizure. I close all of them every time I leave the boat. I think it is madness to leave them open, let alone failing to follow such simple recommended procedure.

 

[prv]

failing to following such simple recommended procedure.

Ideally it would be simple, but in my case I'd have to climb face down into the heads, lie with my chest on top of the bowl and my leg on a sharp edge of plywood, open the panel behind it, lift up one of the batteries, fetch the handle (it doesn't fit on the top of the seacock with everything in place), close the heads seacocks, put the battery back, put the panel back, and climb back out of the heads. Then get head-first into the quarter berth, prop up the after part of the cushion, lift up the panel underneath, turn off the engine seacock, and with great difficulty wiggle back out again. Then (not too difficult) lift up the starboard berth and turn off the galley seacock.

I think it's clear why I don't go through that palaver every time I pop out for a couple of hours' sailing after work.

Pete

 

[haydude]

Ideally it would be simple, but in my case I'd have to climb face down into the heads, lie with my chest on top of the bowl and my leg on a sharp edge of plywood,[...]
Pete

Isn't sailing wonderful!

 

[fireball]

Ideally it would be simple, but in my case I'd have to climb face down into the heads, lie with my chest on top of the bowl and my leg on a sharp edge of plywood, open the panel behind it, lift up one of the batteries, fetch the handle (it doesn't fit on the top of the seacock with everything in place), close the heads seacocks, put the battery back, put the panel back, and climb back out of the heads. Then get head-first into the quarter berth, prop up the after part of the cushion, lift up the panel underneath, turn off the engine seacock, and with great difficulty wiggle back out again. Then (not too difficult) lift up the starboard berth and turn off the galley seacock.

I think it's clear why I don't go through that palaver every time I pop out for a couple of hours' sailing after work.

Pete

Perhaps it would be worth reviewing your seacock location then ... how would you close it in an emergency - say if the pipe burst ... ?

I know a lot don't bother with turning theirs off - I think I've already said that we don't bother turning off the engine one - because it's a bit of a climb to get to it and the engine's warm when we'd turn it off ... but otherwise the common ones get turned open when we board and closed when we lock up. The cockpit drains astern - no tubing or seacocks to worry about.

 

[prv]

Perhaps it would be worth reviewing your seacock location then

Well, it's been thoroughly reviewed, and the conclusion is that that's a **** location for the seacocks . Especially since I spent most of the last two Saturdays in there servicing the seacocks and renewing toilet hoses.

Not really much option though.

Pete

 

[fireball]

Well, it's been thoroughly reviewed, and the conclusion is that that's a **** location for the seacocks . Especially since I spent most of the last two Saturdays in there servicing the seacocks and renewing toilet hoses.

Not really much option though.

Pete

- at least you've considered it ...

Our seacocks are in a **** location too ... when on port tack the inlet is out of the water ... so you can't flush ... Duh!

 

[haydude]

Better a Bavaria?

I have seen a Colvic Sailer that had the cockpit draining through large (toilet drain size) hoses linked to two large blakes seacocks on both sides of the engine compartment. Closing these seacocks meant flooding the whole cockpit with rain or wash. Yet a leak would flood the bilge and eventually sink the boat. Shocking!

Is this a case where Bavaria and perhaps in general modern AWB are actually better and safer?

My Bavaria has very easy access to all the seacocks. And most importantly there aren't silly underwater draining arrangements.

 

[prv]

I have seen a Colvic Sailer that had the cockpit draining through large (toilet drain size) hoses linked to two large blakes seacocks on both sides of the engine compartment. Closing these seacocks meant flooding the whole cockpit with rain or wash. Yet a leak would flood the bilge and eventually sink the boat. Shocking!

Not all that shocking - it's a perfectly standard arrangement.

I presume your Bavaria has a step-through transom allowing the cockpit to empty straight out the back. Clearly that's better for drainage, but it only works once you have high enough topsides to lift the cockpit well above the waterline. My cockpit sole is only a few inches above the static waterline - put lots of people on board (more than you would sail with, but perhaps for a party alongside) and water comes up through the drains.

Pete

 

[fireball]

cockpit sole is only a few inches above the static waterline - put lots of people on board (more than you would sail with, but perhaps for a party alongside) and water comes up through the drains.

Did that on a Macwester Rowan ... as we were only under motor (4 adults in the cockpit plus myself = no sailing!) I went forward to try and raise the stern a little ...
I think they got wet feet ...

 

[vyv_cox]

My little motorsailer is similar, water comes up the drains with a few people in the cockpit and when the stern sinks underway.

Years ago we suffered a flooded boat due to rain in the cockpit but nothing to do with closed draincocks. We were at Port Dinorwic, which is surrounded by trees. It was autumn and leaves blocked the cockpit drains. Coming back next weekend there were several inches of water in the boat.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Ours are all easy to get to. We open them when we get on board, and close them when we leave the boat for more than a few days.

I grease them twice a year and operte them monthly if we are not going anywhere.

Probably overkill, but I have the time and it's really not that much of a hassle for the extra comfort feeling.