stills or movie

[dylanwinter]

Now I love a great still shot

well composed, beautifully lit, interesting boat related subject

I was stills at the start - although my dad had a super 8

then I took stills of tractors for farmers weekly


Now I do video

I take the occasional still and lift the odd frame grab for a website

But generally I like seeing things move

for me it suits sailing because sailing is all about movement. Even when it is still then it is moving a bit

I think that The film of the massive Irish Lock and Peters films about sailing around Britain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np7FrpwfP1o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC9zBOwAF_A


They both show that if you shoot it right in the first place then you don't have to do a massive amount of editing.

I am keen to hear stories from sailors who tried video and gave up on it -

love to know why it just did not work for you?

battery life.... wind noise... too much data....camera drowned....

editing bores me to death.....my crewmates started to hate me and the camera

all perfectly rational reasons for not bothering it

does anyone never take pictures

what about water-colours

how do you preserve your sailing memories?

I have decided that a human head is a terribly unreliable place to store them

Dylan

 

[tom_sail]

I love filming sailing. I always try to film every trip out. My problem is after it a bit it gets reparative, water, sails, water, sails not much else to film.

For you it works quite well as creeks and rivers change.

Getting different shots is fun, I have used kite cams and mast head cams to make it more entertaining.

I want to try a new camera angle by tying a go pro to the top of a fender dropping it overboard and sailing up to/over it. Calm day is in need I think.

 

[Swg]

I've nearly given up trying to snap my sailing. Somehow I let the effort of composing pics etc get in the way of the delight of just being. So, I started to write down the details of every sail when I came back. Then I found that trying to get the detail down was somehow at odds with the experience. Now I write down what I thought about, after a few days. I really like reading the writings of others and reflecting on my sailing. It's getting very 'Zen and the Craft of Boat Experience.' Or maybe it's drinking all that surplus meths! Gimbals en route.
M

 

[Seajet]

I was trained as a stills man, but also set up 16mm cine cameras on Harriers & Hawks for the pilot to ( hopefully ) start when he was doing something like releasing fuel tanks or bombs, rockets, missiles etc.

We once had to film a Sidewinder missile launch, I won't say the figures we were given but let's say our jaws dropped and 200 frames per second suddenly seemed rather tame...

It's trendy in aviation circles to take the p out of the film 'Top Gun' but I look on it wistfully, the UK services would never be so co-operative; some of the filming was using the same Photo Sonics 1VN cameras we used, with whole displays removed so as to fit the camera, the nearest we got was removing a wingtip nav' light from a Hawk and fitting a cine camera there to film formation displays, which got credited to the BBC !

I am very much a stills person, I like to 'capture the moment' or character of a situation, I suppose the stills photographer is rather like a sniper...

This is the development Harrier GR5 ZD319 on Rough Ground Trials, 14 cine cameras on board observing the undercarriage in case it reached its' limits, also Harrier afficionado's can see the nose reaction control duct jet in operation, pilot Graham 'G.T.' Tomlinson.

 

[FistralG]

I started with still photography when I was given a basic film based SLR as a teenager. I even had a go at my own B&W developing but I didn't really have the time or patience to continue. Now I photograph mainly sunsets and sunrises and the occaisional bit of wild life using my Nikon D80. Most still photography now I do using my iPhone.

I bought a Panasonic HD camcorder about 6 years ago, originally for videoing my sons rugby matches. Since then I've used it for videoing skiing and sailing holidays and family events. Wind noise is the biggest issue and the model of camcorder I bought doesn't have facility for an external mic ( the original model did but I think they took it off the spec to save money when they brought out the mark 2 version which I bought).

After that editing HD video is very difficult unless you have some high spec hardware. My recent laptop seems to manage it a lot better and different editing software packages are better than others. My current favourite is MS Live movie maker, which although limited in its output formats does seem to handle the .mts files that the panny produces quite well without too much freezing or slowing down. Some software packages I tried were completely unable to render longer clips and I had to edit them down to smaller bites in order to get any kind of output.

I can really appreciate the skill and effort you put into your vidoes, Dylan and I'm awe of your lensmens eye for the perfect shot. Some of your videos on YouTube are amazing especially when are trying to steer, balance and navigate your duck punt at the same time!
From time to time I'll flick back through my pictures and videos and often be surprised at how much of the detail of the original memory I'd forgotten.

 

[dylanwinter]

the detail

it is in the detail where you find surprises

a family car you had forgotten

or the weird way used to dinghy sail in shorts and deck shoes in ever weather

socks and dry feet were for wusses

I assume that people will be spotting all sorts of things in the background

not just the odd car going backwards

Dylan

 

[Ru88ell]

A good friend of mine makes video using still with audio track. I find them really engaging. I'd not seen anything quite like it before.

http://thehiddencity.net Click on the map bits.

 

[johnalison]

Many years ago I used to belong to a distinguished camera club, the 2nd oldest in the country, and one of the entertainments was the occasional A/V evening. Apparently, according to research (1980s) an average audience could be expected to remember about 10% of a spoken lecture, about 15-20% of a cine film (if you can remember what that was) and something like 60% of an A/V show.

I have seen some fine A/V shows with slides, including a 9-projector show, but on the whole they were more often marked by cock-ups than enlightenment, but undoubtably, a modern digital presentation such as Powerpoint is the most effective way of putting a message across, if not always the most aesthetically pleasing.

 

[johnalison]

Super 8 was posh. I've still got my Double-8 Bolex.

 

[st599]

Wind noise can be cured with the addition of a rycote furry. They do them for handycam mics now.

Editing can be a pain if the cameraman hasn't shot with editing in mind, trying to find a safe point to exit a boring monologue or into a pan. There are lots of good books on editing technique, or just use Animoto.

Keep meaning to write up things like creating a "Virtual Steadicam" video, removing jello effect, ...

 

[Salty John]

I have many, many hours of film from our last three year cruise - USA, Bahamas, T&Cs. However, as an impatient perfectionist I find editing a bore.

I've only made one short movie in over ten years - the Family Island Regatta, it's about 3 minutes long!

So, for me it's the editing that's the problem. I don't find filming a chore, I'd do more if I thought the results would be more satisfying than they are.

 

[dylanwinter]

virtual steady cam

Wind noise can be cured with the addition of a rycote furry. They do them for handycam mics now.

Editing can be a pain if the cameraman hasn't shot with editing in mind, trying to find a safe point to exit a boring monologue or into a pan. There are lots of good books on editing technique, or just use Animoto.

Keep meaning to write up things like creating a "Virtual Steadicam" video, removing jello effect, ...

tell me more about the virtual steadicam

Dylan

 

[Seajet]

A chum was a video photographer for MTV when it was becoming a Big Thing.

He described the Steadicam operator, a big bloke necessarily, between takes a minion swiftly wheeled up a thing like an umbrella stand, the guy hooked the camera harness onto it to take the counterbalance weight, sagging as he relaxed, also supported by his harness !

Then for the next take they whipped the stand out from under him...

 

[st599]

tell me more about the virtual steadicam

Dylan

Most modern video codecs have a complex motion estimator in them. Some open source bods have used this module to work out the motion in a video and stabilise any edges they detect.

Here's a video shot handheld on a moving yacht that is going up and down quite well. It is foxed by the fast pan at the start and me falling down the companionway steps at the end. I think it would work better without the lifelines being in shot.

http://youtu.be/1h-znEBnfPw

I shot it 1080p25, stabilised it in software (which leaves a varying black border) and then cropped out the middle 1280x720. The newer version of the software fills in the black borders.

It's an open-source plugin to an open-source programme which requires some open-source codecs.

It takes a while to run a video through it (as you can probably imagine) - but I like the results.

The same plugin can also fix issues with rolling shutters (Jello effect) but requires the user to shoot some test footage to establish the settings required.

As I said, I've got a few ideas to write up - I've just written some software to locate highlights when you're using something like a Go-Pro and have a script for creating super slow-mo effect video.

 

[st599]

A chum was a video photographer for MTV when it was becoming a Big Thing.

He described the Steadicam operator, a big bloke necessarily, between takes a minion swiftly wheeled up a thing like an umbrella stand, the guy hooked the camera harness onto it to take the counterbalance weight, sagging as he relaxed, also supported by his harness !

Then for the next take they whipped the stand out from under him...

Still do that. Most steadicam operators give up after about 5 years.

 

[dylanwinter]

wow

Most modern video codecs have a complex motion estimator in them. Some open source bods have used this module to work out the motion in a video and stabilise any edges they detect.

Here's a video shot handheld on a moving yacht that is going up and down quite well. It is foxed by the fast pan at the start and me falling down the companionway steps at the end. I think it would work better without the lifelines being in shot.

http://youtu.be/1h-znEBnfPw

I shot it 1080p25, stabilised it in software (which leaves a varying black border) and then cropped out the middle 1280x720. The newer version of the software fills in the black borders.

It's an open-source plugin to an open-source programme which requires some open-source codecs.

It takes a while to run a video through it (as you can probably imagine) - but I like the results.

The same plugin can also fix issues with rolling shutters (Jello effect) but requires the user to shoot some test footage to establish the settings required.

As I said, I've got a few ideas to write up - I've just written some software to locate highlights when you're using something like a Go-Pro and have a script for creating super slow-mo effect video.

that is excellent

I was using stabilising software on the films - you have to get it to track an item

and then I expanded the image

it worked okay.... and sometimes it was hard to detect in the master version of the film - but you tube would sometimes make nonsense of it again


I am getting better at holding the camera steady

stand like a gorilla - hold the camera in the middle of your body - legs and arms bent

tray to take out as much of the movement as you can with your body

do not use the zoom

get close to the target

when you write it up will you lwet me know where you do it

Dylan

 

[King Penguin]

These DSLRs, etc are now very good for video, coupled with the wonderful Adobe premier Elements I find it simple to edit, cut and paste etc.

Here's one I did last summer sailing along the Llyn peninsula in my Hallberg Rassy Rasmus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuxyUECQN4g

 

[st599]

These DSLRs, etc are now very good for video, coupled with the wonderful Adobe premier Elements I find it simple to edit, cut and paste etc.

Here's one I did last summer sailing along the Llyn peninsula in my Hallberg Rassy Rasmus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuxyUECQN4g

There's some really nice shots in there. Some constructive suggestions for the video:

1) Youtube or your Elements output settings has made it quite blocky - could be worth experimenting.
2) If you're making use of background music, you should cut on the beat of the music to make it "blend" more
3) Try looking at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/journalism/skills/production/shooting-sequences/ to understand what works together.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Now I love a great still shot

well composed, beautifully lit, interesting boat related subject

I was stills at the start - although my dad had a super 8

then I took stills of tractors for farmers weekly


Now I do video

I take the occasional still and lift the odd frame grab for a website

But generally I like seeing things move

for me it suits sailing because sailing is all about movement. Even when it is still then it is moving a bit

I think that The film of the massive Irish Lock and Peters films about sailing around Britain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np7FrpwfP1o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC9zBOwAF_A


They both show that if you shoot it right in the first place then you don't have to do a massive amount of editing.

I am keen to hear stories from sailors who tried video and gave up on it -

love to know why it just did not work for you?

battery life.... wind noise... too much data....camera drowned....

editing bores me to death.....my crewmates started to hate me and the camera

all perfectly rational reasons for not bothering it

does anyone never take pictures

what about water-colours

how do you preserve your sailing memories?

I have decided that a human head is a terribly unreliable place to store them

Dylan

I used to use a Panasonic GRS707 SVHS Camcorder for my video work about 18yrs ago, brilliant quality.
Still have a Videotech editing/title generater unit in the attic.

Was that Bruce Lee with the boat hook?

C_W

 

[Giblets]

There's some really nice shots in there. Some constructive suggestions for the video:

1) Youtube or your Elements output settings has made it quite blocky - could be worth experimenting.
2) If you're making use of background music, you should cut on the beat of the music to make it "blend" more
3) Try looking at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/journalism/skills/production/shooting-sequences/ to understand what works together.

Thanks for the tips and the link, st599. I now understand what the Beat Detection feature on my editing program is for.

I've also been reading through this online course which I have found very helpful. Now all I need to do is index all my clips somehow!