Still think red's demise makes no difference?

Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

[ QUOTE ]
smile as much as you like Ari, this is the second boat in less than a week,

[/ QUOTE ]

Two boats reduced in price you say? Well then it's conclusive, I take it all back. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

you've made your point, and at the same time showed yourself to the forum as to what you are, just a sad argumentative Boater /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

if sarcasm is all you have to offer, I will no longer reply to your posts, /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Well I'll tell you what. You come up with a rational argument to substantiate your views, and I'll offer some rational debate.

But surely even the most fervent doomsayer must see how ridiculous it is to point at a boat that wouldn't sell last year as proof that values have dropped as a result of a ruling that was only made within the last few weeks! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But if all you can offer is insults then not to worry. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Anyone that doesn't think the change in fuel prices will make a difference is a complete idiot. The only question is to what degree. Hopefully it will be minimal, but don't bank on it.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Ari
I agree that a boat or two's price drop does not make the point.
In the last week I have had two friends put their boat on the market intending to get out of boating.

One simply cannot afford to carry on boating - they do a few hundred hours a year that has been reduced with the recent price hikes but now they have nowhere left to go.

The other can afford to keep going but judges it simply no longer worth the cost.

Both want to get out before the rush.

That is pure anecdotal info I know but they are just two of many I know heading that way. I am not lying about this – this is what I am observing around me.


The boaters who used to do 300 hours a year have reduced that down to 100 and now are getting out - it has been a struggle for many to cope with the almost doubling in fuel prices over the last few years.

I really do think that you should stop attacking other forum members and try to stick to the issues being raised. Given that you are refusing to give your connection to the trade and choose to snipe at people, it hardly bodes well for good forum relations.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

I don't know that many boaty bod's, Not been doing it long enough u see, but have noticed a few cancelled orders knocking about, so why don't boaty bod's stand together & at least have a go.
I am talking industry & users, all join together, instead of fighting each other here!
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

OK, Ari, first off, where in all this post have I said that I believe the end of red is the cause?

if you read the title of the post it is the form of a question,

Yes, I implied it you can argue, but nevertheless I never stated it,

I've been tracking Sunseeker sales on the INTERNET sites for about a year, and admit I'm not knowledgeable about any other Marque, having said that, my search has been limited to 29 to 45 foot in length, and a maximum selling price including VAT of £100,000, surprisingly or not, there is not a huge number that fit these criteria, and I've followed their progress through 2006, seen some sell and go off the sites but not a large number,and whilst these boats are not flying off the shelves so to speak, there have been some sold.

Also in my searching I found that the prices remained firm, until just recently when the announcement of the finish of red and to compound the problems bio fuel was to lose it's "off road duty status"
All I have done is highlight, what may be the first cases of red diesel demise,

again I'm not a so called "doomsdayer" just writing what I find it's the forums population that determines whether it's scaremongering or truth.

you are in the camp of the former, if your posts are a reflection of your beliefs,

but the nature of your replies makes me beg the question of you, are you a broker staunchly trying to defend your business, because if boat prices do plunge so does your fees, or again perhaps you're just trying to keep your defences up because perhaps you own an older twin engined diesel boat and don't like the idea that the residual value might crash.

either way as far as I'm concerned the issue is hardly debatable, as it will now be consigned to history very soon.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

[ QUOTE ]
OK, Ari, first off, where in all this post have I said that I believe the end of red is the cause?
.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still think red's demise makes no difference?
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Any one who argues that 400/500% inflation on fuel in two or three years. makes no difference. Is either a fool, an imbicile, or has a vested interest, with probably a few £££££ of boats to sell.

I've watched the prices of my boat over the years. Adverts over eight years have been constantly around 85 grand, which is close to what I paid.

Suddenly there around 69 grand.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

I think we will see the same situation as with the mooring costs, when they shot up. The little man at the bottom with the small boat, that is well used, dropes out the market. The rich new owner with the big cruiser moves in to replace him, more boat more income, but so it never leaves the pontoon so what.
Now the chap with the cheap cruiser that uses it a lot will be priced out buy increased fuel, but the big cruiser that stops on the pontoon will stay, no use no fuel increase. Now with everyone talking depreciation, as per cars, the top end will carry on, and we are going to see big cruisers being broken up that are not that old. After all who can afford to run and service a big cruiser, even if it's cheap to buy, and you still have to moor it.

I think we will end with the have's and the have not's, or boating as rich man's toy again.

Brian
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Hi Ari
I don't care what you do for a living, not my business.
I am however very successful & looking at at least 20% growth this year, And i am pretty good at the penny game in general.
If someone is selling a product, & it becomes twice as expensive to use that product , no matter what it is , sales will suffer!
In this industry, however, many consumers such as myself can well absorb another £ 100 per week expenses, but many can't.
It is the lower end of the market that will suffer, both old large diesels and new small diesels.
I simply think it is about time Jo public started to stand up and say enough is enough (re- indirect taxation.)
As i have said elsewhere on this forum, i was very ill 2003/2004 & nearly Said bye bye. As a result my long term future is in some doubt, so, one way or another I intend to go out with a bang. This Issue provides me with a springboard to achieve this.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Where I boat a 60 foot boat is large - most boats are 20 foot to 35 foot.
Most boaters are ordinary people in ordinary jobs who sacrifice to keep their boats going. They pay their way in society and by so doing support a lot of people who do not.

A point has been made on these forums that the rise will make no difference because there has already been a doubling of price without effect.

In 2000 I was paying about 24p per litre for red. Today 7 years later the price is 46p from the same source. An increase of about 22p per litre over 7 years.

When red goes the cost will be at least 42p more - lets say 88p from the same source a rise of twice the rise over 7 years!!!

Even the gradual rise has hit many boaters hard and they have modified their boating. An overnight rise of twice the rise over 7 years will basically force many out of boating.

The UK boating industry depends on new boaters entering the market to support the price of second hand boats - I think that market will reduce by well over 60% - that is just my opinion but it based upon my observations.

I do think that it is also going to very hard to sell boats and prices will drop and drop.

I think the way the application of HMG to the EU was left to the last minute was disgusting - even now nobody knows exactly what will happen and how all the problems outlined in the HMG report to the EU will be overcome. I also think the change will be unenforceable. That is not just my opinion HMG shares it.

Boating will survive in the UK but it will be smaller and with a greater shift to the wealthy - that will rip the real hearty out of it.

So why is this happening? Because HMG are totally indifferent to anything else but their own little private agenda. In 1997 they won with a ask on - that mask is now wearing thin and its the deceit that above all makes we totally reject the current government.



There .... I feel better now!
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

I dont sacrifice anything, as far as I know, to afford my boat, could probably have a new one, if I thought it would make one jot of difference to my enjoyment.

But I did not get to where I am, by waistfully spending money, or doing to many stupid things.

Even toyed with the idea of moving to Windermere, I cant use much juice on there and it's close to home. Think I might be bored to death in a month, but anyway. Turns out the marina is nearly double that of Plymouth. Lot of money to just feel a bit of a fool.

I would think the vast majority of boaters are like me, retired or semi retired. The income, however much, has a limit. I could buy a house every year in some where like Turkey, for what I spend on the boat.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Well Guys sorry if I'd upset you with this post, just throwing in my tuppence worth on this issue.

as said before only time will tell us what the outcome will be!

goodnight.

A last thought, is Ari a woman?

ARGUMENTS,
A woman has the last word in any argument.
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

>>>
Any one who argues that 400/500% inflation on fuel in two or three years. makes no difference. Is either a fool, an imbicile, or has a vested interest, with probably a few £££££ of boats to sell.
>>>

You left out a few:

Filty Rich, won't notice
Politican, may be filty rich anyway, or, already mentioned, vested interest, fool or imbecile:-)
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

[ QUOTE ]
If someone is selling a product, & it becomes twice as expensive to use that product , no matter what it is , sales will suffer!

[/ QUOTE ]
It ain't necessarily so. Products which people don't need, but want (like boats), or regard as a status symbol can be an exception.

Example: A long time ago, I was peripherally connected to the cosmetics industry. The company I was with launched a new product and it flopped. They multiplied the price by 5 and it sold like hot cakes. "Consumer perceptibility" was the in phrase then.

There's nowt so daft as fowk.
 
Re: Still think red\'s demise makes no difference?

Time of the year !

Prices drop in jan/feb as they do on the high st money is tight after Christmas and credit cards full.

Prices will rise in spring.

This one might not as could well be filthy as it has been for sale for a while, could have had a survey and several problems found hence price drop.

I know two boats for sale now that were sold 5/6 years ago with no depreciation.

Good looked after and clean boats will always hold their value, dirty boats will always hang around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top