Still Confused and other geriatric mutterings

[lustyd]

But it does not always get put through the right letterbox at the other end. If indeed, it does get that far

And it doesn't get there on time, requires a letterbox wherever you happen to sail to/from, requires you to have a printer, paper, envelopes, stamps, requires you to call the yachtline because the posted form won't be with them. It's complete pantomime for the purpose of pretending there's a border. The new system at least records the details and automates checks. It's still pantomime but it's also slightly fit for purpose.

 

[wonkywinch]

It's called "snail mail" for a reason

 

[Daydream believer]

And it doesn't get there on time, requires a letterbox wherever you happen to sail to/from, requires you to have a printer, paper, envelopes, stamps, requires you to call the yachtline because the posted form won't be with them. It's complete pantomime for the purpose of pretending there's a border. The new system at least records the details and automates checks. It's still pantomime but it's also slightly fit for purpose.

Presumably one can print half a dozen copies at home & fill in with a biro. Does it matter when it arrives with borderforce. You have sent it. Why bother phoning?

 

[lustyd]

Does it matter when it arrives with borderforce. You have sent it. Why bother phoning?

It matters because if they don't have it then the whole charade is pointless. You bother to phone because with the paper system you are required to, unlike the app.

 

[Daydream believer]

It matters because if they don't have it then the whole charade is pointless. You bother to phone because with the paper system you are required to, unlike the app.

Sums it up in one
So just phone & do not bother to send. say it got lost in the post & save a £

 

[doug748]

Presumably one can print half a dozen copies at home & fill in with a biro. Does it matter when it arrives with borderforce. You have sent it. Why bother phoning?

Exactly. Nobody GAS if the form arrives late, on the crack of doom or never. Keep a copy, one phone call done.

We are all aware that the system is pointless, including the various continental pantomimes. You don't have to be A J Ayer to work that out.

.

 

[Poecheng]

I plan to float across to Cherbourg on Thursday evening.

With this in mind, I started filling in the online Border Force form notice of departure form, all was going well until I reached the “do you have an MMSI number and if so - what is it” question, I don’t have VHF on my boat (I’m deaf) so don’t have an MMSI number so,left the reply to the relevant box empty and took the “NO” button option. However the form display won’t let me proceed further until I enter an MMSI number no matter what I try. I emailed the administrator SPCR to explain the situation and they got back to me very quickly and explained the option to select ‘NO” which I’d already tried, I’ve tried it all over again just now with the same result.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? I’ve emailed the SPCR again and included a screenshot so hopefully I’ll have a solution soon.

Next - Do I need to reserve a berth in Cherbourg Marina or can I just tie up to a visitors pontoon and walk to the marina office to have a berth allocated?

Any other advice?

Hi,
As Boathook has said, it is fairly relaxed at Cherbourg and you go on the visitors when you can and sort it out from there. We were recently met by chap in a dory to direct us but it was jammed at the time with the Dhream Cup and maybe it is unusual.

Re VHF: I mention this only in case it happens and it might otherwise be somewhat disconcerting in your circumstances. We were called up by the French Navy a few miles outside Cherbourg to keep away from a sub; there was a warship leading, sub in the middle and then the calling vessel, a large tug. They were going round in a very large circle. If you see such a thing then keep a good mile away and don't be surprised if something big comes up to you if they cannot identify you (no AIS?) and cannot call you (no VHF).
The PAF is located at (what 3 words): charge.fans.cherub
Bon voyage

 

[Wandering Star]

That’s very helpful Poecheng - thanks.

Re the UK Border Force online form, thanks for everyone’s input, as per Wonkywiches suggestion, I completed the form by putting “NA” in the MMSI box and that cured both the MMSI & Callsign errors and allowed the page to scroll down. All now completed so thanks everyone.

See you in France?

 

[Iliade]

Would it not be worth getting an MMSI and a radio so that someone could just press the red 'panic' button, even if they cannot transmit /hear voice?

 

[Daydream believer]

May I ask how the OP intends to enter a port without a VHF to contact port control, when the IPTS is green white green?
The fine for disobedience can be quite high.
Then there is the safety factor.
If one has a crew, then presumably they can use a hand held.
Or are there other reasons for not wanting to use a VHF?. That is not unknown

 

[Wandering Star]

May I ask how the OP intends to enter a port without a VHF to contact port control, when the IPTS is green white green?
The fine for disobedience can be quite high.
Then there is the safety factor.
If one has a crew, then presumably they can use a hand held.
Or are there other reasons for not wanting to use a VHF?. That is not unknown

I carry a large number of time expired flares on board, when I find myself in a situation which would normally be resolved with the use of a VHF, I fire off a couple of flares, the lifeboat soon attends and deals with any comms on my behalf. Obviously I try not to impose too often as they do use the lifeboat for saving lives on occasions which I understand.

 

[wonkywinch]

I can't help thinking that whilst sailing local familiar waters without any comms with the outside world is a nice thing to do, crossing international waters, shipping lanes, entering busy harbours etc is irresponsible without a method of communicating to others your intentions?

A new VHF handheld can be bought for £100, half that second hand or even borrowed from a friend. Even if the OP is deaf then they could still transmit a message even if they couldn't hear the response to assist other vessels of their intentions.

And good luck entering France with expired flares!

 

[Daydream believer]

I carry a large number of time expired flares on board, when I find myself in a situation which would normally be resolved with the use of a VHF, I fire off a couple of flares, the lifeboat soon attends and deals with any comms on my behalf. Obviously I try not to impose too often as they do use the lifeboat for saving lives on occasions which I understand.

What ever you do - do not take out of date flares into France. I have had mine checked a couple of times. Out of date flares means a heafty fine in France.

But flares do not get you in and out of a port with IPTS which was the point of my earlier post. When I mentioned safety, I was referring to you going in when some ship or other was coming out, causing mayhem.

But as for relying on a life boat. Even the crew of the lifeboat has to be able to speak to the crew of the distressed vessel. Voice messages do not carry far at sea. Less so if the recipient is deaf. Something as simple as .say, just requiring a tow from a nearby vessel, seems a bit irresponsible to invoke a major distress incident with flares & a lifeboat.

 

[benjenbav]

I have to confess never to having been an enthusiast for DSC but, on the face of it it might be useful for the OP if - and only if - the CG receiving the DSC emergency transmission and responding with a voice message didn’t just give up and clear their screens on getting no response to their call back to the OP.

Perhaps a better solution would be Starlink. Expensive, but I believe (might be wrong) you can choose only to pay for the periods of usage. This would allow communication on a 21st century basis without the whole rigmarole of ‘roger, roger, over’ etc that characterised what is now very outdated technology.

It may be that nowadays there’s unbroken 5G/4G for an X-channel to Cherbourg in which case there might be an even simpler alternative to DSC that would allow the OP to alert the emergency services in the event that such became necessary.

 

[wonkywinch]

I have to confess never to having been an enthusiast for DSC but, on the face of it it might be useful for the OP if - and only if - the CG receiving the DSC emergency transmission and responding with a voice message didn’t just give up and clear their screens on getting no response to their call back to the OP.

That is not standard procedure for the CG. They will respond to an unanswered mayday ping, that's the whole point.

Perhaps a better solution would be Starlink. Expensive, but I believe (might be wrong) you can choose only to pay for the periods of usage. This would allow communication on a 21st century basis without the whole rigmarole of ‘roger, roger, over’ etc that characterised what is now very outdated technology.

It may be that nowadays there’s unbroken 5G/4G for an X-channel to Cherbourg in which case there might be an even simpler alternative to DSC that would allow the OP to alert the emergency services in the event that such became necessary.

What advantage does Starlink/internet give you over VHF? What can he do, email the other boat or port? VHF radio comms are still very much the most efficient way to communicate, all aircraft use it and the only people I hear using incorrect phraseology are boaters. "Roger" is a current term (I have received and understood your message) and "over" is required in simplex comms to let the other person know it's their turn to speak.

It may be that nowadays there’s unbroken 5G/4G for an X-channel to Cherbourg in which case there might be an even simpler alternative to DSC that would allow the OP to alert the emergency services in the event that such became necessary.

There isn't mobile signal outside of about 5 miles from the coast. There is already a service to alert the CG etc, it's called SafeTrx and I use it whenever I cross the channel or wide empty bits of water.

RYA SafeTrx

 

[Wandering Star]

Being serious, I’m a very safe sailor and do take things more seriously than the impression I’m giving of myself. I made the original post because being deaf I do tend to look for answers to questions or situations before they arise in order to mitigate chances of problems. Yes I do carry a HH VHF set - never had to use it. My flares are all in date. I do try to sail with crew although on this upcoming trip my crew is one of my sons who is also deaf.

I’ve sailed since 12 years old, made several longer passages (8 x Transats as skipper of my own boats), I’ve never had a problem of any kind with port authorities due to being incommunicado. I do my research before departure and if the research causes me any concerns about port entry regulations or whatever I email them for prior instructions pointing out my deafness and normally receive friendly helpful advice for a simple solution/workaround.

One (almost valid) criticism is if I don’t have a VHF how could I respond to a nearby distress broadcast? Simple answer is that unless the casualty used visible distress signals - I couldn’t! But if I wasn’t out there sailing in the first place I couldn’t help either so I’m not hanging up my sea boots for that reason alone.

 

[benjenbav]

“What advantage does Starlink/internet give you over VHF?”

Where circumstances permit I would always use a phone or computer over vhf to communicate with a single correspondent. It allows a natural use of language and the interface is infinitely superior.

If one takes voice comms out of the equation - as for a deaf user alone on a boat, trying to communicate with a port authority - then I would imagine the benefits of digital comms via a computer or smartphone are even more significant.

Noted with thanks, the confirmation of CG Mayday alert procedures and especially the link to RYA SafeTrx - that certainly didn’t exist when I sold my most recent* boat in 2014.


*most recent, but maybe not my last boat. We shall see about that…

 

[dunedin]

That is not standard procedure for the CG. They will respond to an unanswered mayday ping, that's the whole point.

Yes but that does sometimes waste an awful lot of people’s time and resources.
Last week there was a distress alert in the Clyde, with no voice comms. Boats were asked to look for an orange RIB, and many diverted to do so. Multiple coastguard shore teams mobilised. The lifeboat launched. A helicopter passed overhead doing search patterns.
A few hours later the boat was found safe and well in a harbour miles away, after the coastguard finally managed to contact the skipper via shore contact details. False activation, and I assume not listening on VHF to the two hours of mayday traffic for their RIB.

 

[pmagowan]

There are a number of VHF solutions with headsets and noise cancelling which can be useful for the hard of hearing. For those with no hearing I would suggest a small hand held to at least give outgoing information including the fact that you are deaf would be useful. You can set up a quick system of lights etc in reply in an emergency such as 1 flash yes 2 flashes no and then speak simple questions on the VHF to receive a yes no answer from eg a lifeboat. Any situation where you have advanced knowledge of the need to communicate eg arriving at a port can be sorted with contacting them in advance and arranging text services such as mobile phone or internet communication.
Of course having a hearing member of crew sorts all this out but I don’t think insurmountable otherwise in a safe manner.

 

[wonkywinch]

Where circumstances permit I would always use a phone or computer over vhf to communicate with a single correspondent. It allows a natural use of language and the interface is infinitely superior.

VHF simplex allows comms in natural language, you just start and end with standard phraseology.

I've often found marinas don't pick up the phone as someone is out on the pontoons or a dory but they always have a handheld.

I do often hear people who speak like they're trying to talk down a Lancaster bomber, probably because they are not comfortable with the medium due to inexperience.