Stick to boats - my experience with Ryanair

[Gunfleet]

Ryan air NEVER AGAIN

Couldn't agree more. We've had the same experience half a dozen times with them over the course of a year at different airports in France. I've been passed through security twice when the plane had not even left Stansted and subsequent comment made it clear they knew it had not left Stansted. This happened once in Dinard, once in Carcassonne. I think they do it so they can get the security men off duty and off costs.

The second time they tried to shove me through security at Carcassonne (in other words the third time in all) I was ready. I'm not leaving the lounge until I have heard the wretched plane land! Of course two hours later the poor sods who've dutifully obeyed their calls are still sitting without the hope of a cup of coffee or a pee! Then when it does arrive the seat melee begins.

The airside staff are the rudest wretches ever to leave auld Oirland and your baggage wait was as nothing to ours when we travelled from Dinard. 2 1/2 hours in the luggage hall at Stansted owing to 'staff shortages'. Hundreds of people abandoned their baggage and travelled on, hundreds more waited for their baggage and missed their plane. When you add in the two hours waiting at Dinard past security in conditions so rough some of the mothers were ready to tear the police des frontiers limb from limb so their kiddiwinkies could get a pee or a drink, we were back on a similar timetable to the blinking ferry or train! (which, by the way, is the way I'll cross the channel in future). Of course each time I've tried to complain to Ryan Air you get an address in Ireland and a phone number that never answers. They're probably too busy unloading yesterday's luggage. Rant mode off

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[Sybarite]

And you good sir seem not to be able to read. I said that I presented ID in conformity with their own notice which states : "All international travel journeys require a valid passport (and visa if required) OR, where applicable, a national identity card as defined above ..." ie " National identity cards are accepted only when they are issued by a Schengen country, ie .... France.... " which is what I presented. They contested however that my "carte de séjour" (a French Identity card for non-French residing in France) was a "carte d'identité" If it is not this then I would like to know what other purpose it serves? As I am too much of an eejit (and obnoxious) to know perhaps you could tell me.

Also at Beauvais they checked my papers, knowing I was coming back, and OK'd them. It was also the passport authorities who told me about the tolerance (confirmed again yesterday morning by telephone to the passport office) and apparently further confirmed by the fact that I had no trouble getting home.

The logic of a passport is simply to confirm that you are who you say you are. You don't stop being that person at midnight on the expiry date.


John



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[Peppermint]

Re: EasyJet

I've flown with EasyJet a bit lately. Luton to Nice mainly. Well its not top class but its OK. Staff are very helpful too.

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[vyv_cox]

If there's one thing that 25 years of international travel has taught me, it's that a bureaucrat at one end of the journey will pay absolutely no attention to the decision of his opposite number at the other end.

All of this only applies to air travel. I recently travelled by train from Germany to Holland and Dutch police passed through on the return journey checking all passports. There's a real change in Europe now so far as illegal immigrants are concerned. Best to ensure that all paperwork is in perfect order.

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[nautigirl]

To no poster in particular, but to everyone of you that has whinged on this thread, I ask 'what the hell did you expect?' You obviously know the rules so why the hell do you try it on? Are you masochists or something? I work in the travel and tourism industry and the the bane of my life is prats who pay £25 for a fare and expect £2000 service. If you don't like it , put your wallet where your mouth is !!

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[Sybarite]

It seems that the two most vituperative replies are from fellow Irish people who have not bothered to try to understand the point I am making.

The position of the Ryanair people at Beauvais was pragmatic and sensible. In other words they checked that my papers complied with Ryanair's own conditions - see my reply to David Bolger - and allowed departure.

The prats (to employ your term) in Dublin chose to make a different interpretation from their colleagues and to hell with the consequences for the client. I hold that they, having partly fulfilled the contract were bound to execute the remainder. By refusing me the return journey they have refused to accept the precedent set by their own organization with important financial consequences for me.

I too have been in the travel industry and I hold that cheap prices are no excuse for lousy treatment of the client. Some other companies simply require the client to accept the financial consequences of any problem relating to refused entry. Which I would have been happy to do. Until recently I travelled abroad on average two days a week and on occasion forgot my passport. If this happened, I telephoned through to immigration to explain and never had the slightest problem in gaining admission. However I did have valid French identity papers
with me; the Ryanair conditions were either / or.

If you choose to read and try to understand the points made by the others on this forum the criticisms have nothing to do with the price of the fare. eg Do you think it's reasonable to leave luggage out in the rain for hours ? What has this to do with cheap tickets?



John



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[dk]

In these sort of situations I would normally say 'You pay peanuts - you get monkeys'. But then I've had many really good cheap flights and the worst flight ever, with the rudest airline staff, was Air New Zealand - after paying £906 + tax for the privilege!

In this day and age, though, I wouldn't even attempt to leave home without ALL my docs well up to date - it just isn't worth the hassle risk. In fact, some countries won't even let you in with less than 6 months validity left on your passport, so beware - there'll always be some super-efficient bureaucrat lurking around the corner just when you're dog tired and want to be beamed home!

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[Gunfleet]

The trouble is, Ryanair have gobbled up the routes with their cheapo flights. To lots of destinations there is simply no choice.

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[squidge]

Well i see your point, and if the departing (french) side had said that you could not use your ID am i correct in saying you would have sorted the passport ?.IMHO i think they should say no vaild passport , no go.no excuses . that way we all know where we stand.Why can't they keep it that simple ?Im sure the authorities and the airlines would prefer it. But the attitude of the airline staff leaves a lot to be desired, yes they are under pressure but i think they handled your situation poorly, one phone call to the french desk would have cleared up the problem and with a change in policy and a bit of training should not happen again.
To those who question the value of a ticket , Why should the cost of a seat indicate the level courtasy given to a customer ?Should not all be treated with the respect the deserve, They ALL contribute to paying the staff wages.In todays market where the customer demands more value and service per £ ,people will not tollerate poor service and rightly so. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[nautigirl]

Yes you are right. Having re-read my last post, I accept it was a little 'hard', probably the result of a fretful 12 hour working day. No, I don't believe that leaving luggage out in the rain is acceptable and some of the other points are well made. BUT, as others have pointed out, the reduced charges you enjoy have to be paid for somewhere. I used to lecture in Quality Management and one of my favorite questions to students was 'How much quality do you build into a product/service' The predictable answers included 'Total reliability' and 'The very highest...' WRONG. The only answer is 'As much as the customer is prepared to pay for'

You may have been a bit unfairly treated but see dk's post above. Its up to you to manage out as much risk as you can for yourself, and deal with the world as it is rather than how you would like it to be.

Here endeth the first lesson

ps I have absolutely no connection with Ryanair

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[Gunfleet]

I think John's point, put simply, is that Eire is a Schengen state and so is France. So the view of French immigration is that what's good for i.d. in France is good for i.d. in Ireland. What's more they - and John - are right. He hasn't left the Schengen area. Ryan Air just can't be bothered to update their check-in staff. Surprise surprise.

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[LadyInBed]

If you thought it was ok to travel on your ID card, why did you take or show your out of date passport in the first place?

I suspect that you knew you would not be able to make the journey on the ID card alone.

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[James_Hunter]

As a resident of France myself, let me whisper this in your ear.
A "carte de sejour" is NOT a French identity card. It is merely a "RESIDENCE card" issued to non-French nationals living in France. It does NOT make you a French national. The "sweet little Ryanair girl" was correct in not accepting it.

But leaving all that aside, you must be out of your tree to travel without a passport
or on an out-of-date passport in these turbulent times. In some of the countries I travel in, you would be in jail right now.

Finally, don't let Bolger get to you. He is a bit of an "eejit" and an insensitive one at that!

JM

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[James_Hunter]

A little rider to my earlier mail: I suspect that the reason you were able to depart (and arrive) in France with your "carte de sejour" was that you were actually resident (your feet were on French soil) in France at the moment you presented it.

Subtle but plausable?

JM

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[Sybarite]

Thanks David for your supporting comments. Take however your point about the card being a "carte de résidence". Under EU rules one does not need authorisation to reside in France. What else can it be then other than an identity card? It has the same info as the ones for the French. It's akin to the "Acte de Francisation" for a French-owned boat and a "Passeport" for boats owned by non-French nationals. The substance is the same, the form changes. When you are asked for ID in France this (carte de séjour) is what you normally produce.

My basic point however is that after examining my papers in Beauvais and having had them accepted the contract was then put into effect and the precedent was set by the parties to the contract. One party to the contract then changed its mind in the course of the performance of the contract thus causing a prejudice to me. If they had refused it before my departure, I wouldn't have liked it but I was not geographically isolated from my residence and would not have had to incur additional costs to get home.

It used to be in Ireland that if you had a problem people would bend over backwards to try to help. I hope this aspect is not changing.

John.




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[Anchorite]

Info for the holier-than-thou sharpshooters (whose papers are always in order and
are therefore entitled, nay, eager to throw the first stone): the French government
has just reduced the period during which an expired passport can be validly used for ID purposes from 10 (!) to 2 years. Not sure what is purpose of showing PP
to airline checkins, thought (eejit) that it was for ID purposes. Can't understand
the puritan backlash aimed at Sybarite: is England turning into a nation of rabid
bureaucrats? Merde alors.

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[faustina]

Been watching this debate from the sidelines but now forced to comment anchorite you are a sad sad man

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[tjm]

Two points
1 No sympathy for travelling with an out of date passport-asking for trouble
2 ryanair are the pits
a friend of mine was travelling back to Liverpool from Dublin recently.After checking in the plane never turned up.He was told to report back the next day
"can I get compensated"
"no,read the small print"
"will you pay for a meal"
"no read the small print"
"will you pay for a hotel"
"read the small print"
"can i use for phone"
"there are phones in the terminal"
"can you suggest ahotel"
"you wont get anywhere now"
He slept in the lounge and the following morning paid for a cup of tea for a woman with a small child who had run out of money
Well done Ryanair

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[TheBoatman]

Sorry, I can't agree. If you let a 10 year passport run out and then expect no hassles your mad.
All of the airlines state clearly that you need one to travel so have one, quite simple. Just because the French decide that formalities don't seem to matter why should we. BTW I wouldn't dream of entering France on a yacht with an out of date passport, the buggers might try to keep me there, which in my opinion is only just slightly better than having bambooo shoots pushed up your fingernails<s>
BTW I was born in Kent so my hatered of the French is in my genes<s>

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[Forbsie]

I cannot believe that you guys expect the same benefits from a budget airline as you would expect when paying full whack to an IIATA member. If I pay £16.50 with Easyjet to fly to Nice as opposed to paying £554 with Air France, there is no way that I can expect the same benefits, Baby or not!!!



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