Sterling charger failed after less than 3years and they want £245 to replace

[Stork_III]

Normal failure mode for a charger, transformer has died. They've probably got no spare ones and have already incurred cost in stripping and testing the component.

I have to say I have more than a sneaking sympathy with Charles Sterling;- in allowing you a 25% discount on a new charger they've already effectively agreed that they'd have expected a longer life (the math works out @ 4 years) and I've NEVER considered them as the expensive end of the market - though I've always purchased direct and have never paid their full price.
I know of one person who's had 5 Victron units (of various kinds) ALL of which have needed attention within 30 months - Victron prices are about 150% of Sterling's.
Personally I always take Charles' enthusiastic claims with a little pinch of salt - hence the reason for sticking with the non-CPU controlled Adverc as my smart controller of choice.
Perhaps the OP's expectations are excessively high?

My €120 Shark charger died in exactly the same way and the £ 212 that Sterling asked me for a replacement makes finding and fitting a transformer an unpopular option.
Of course, if you inadvertently started the engine with the shorepower charger connected and turned on, such early transformer failure is most understandable.

Why is this a problem, surely the charger should be designed so as not to be affected. I have a LEAB charger now 10 years old, and still going strong. I have regularly started engine with SP connected and charger on without any ill effects. All I have read over the years on this forum about Sterling products and particularly Charles Sterling's customer attitude, convince me that I will never buy one of their products.

 

[gjgm]

Worked for a company several years ago, and had to learn sale of good act. Everything has an expected life if it went to court and for example a judge decided a battery charger should last six years and yours lasted 3 years then it only lasted half of its expected life he would award you the other half not the full amount

I am no expert, but I understood the the 6 years is also there to set a time limit for the companies, and someone doesnt turn up 25 years later...
I also thought that it is accepted in law that the appliance should last X years, but it was understood that you cant make all 10,000 appliances do so, within your control. Therefore, the claim needs to identify that there was an inherent fault at the point of production (eg faulty component), in which case you might expect multiple claims, by which time the manufacturer has usually done something about it.
I would imagine that the product would also need to be used in an environment where the ONLY cause of failure could be done to the product, not other effects.
Probably doesnt apply to many products !

 

[charles_reed]

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I have been considering a Sterling Ultimate Charger PCU1260 12v 60amp for some time.

http://www.shop.sterling-power.com/...og/&WD=pcu1260&PN=shop.html#aPCU1260#aPCU1260

What are my other options for a charger of this capacity?

Don't know why you need a 60 amp charger - suggests you have 1200AH of battery capacity - it also seriously limits choice, will need plenty of air circulation to keep cool and takes you into the area of serious money.

In the UK:-

CTek - Swedish design, small and efficient, reasonably priced but seriously smaller than the output for what you're looking. http://www.ctek.com/

Sterling - gives multi outlets so you can charge 3 battery banks - makes considerable claims - reasonable prices and performance.

Victron - Dutch, top price, top reputation usually used in bigger boats - the chargers at the lower end probably are range fillers, re-badged and bought in.
http://www.victronenergy.com/

If you have multi-battery banks I'd suggest you look at several C-Tek chargers for redundancy, cost-saving and precision of charge.
They have a mass-market, high throughput manufacturing operation, an extremely good international reputation (though a fairly recent entry into the UK) good back-up.

 

[charles_reed]

Why is this a problem, surely the charger should be designed so as not to be affected. I have a LEAB charger now 10 years old, and still going strong. I have regularly started engine with SP connected and charger on without any ill effects. All I have read over the years on this forum about Sterling products and particularly Charles Sterling's customer attitude, convince me that I will never buy one of their products.

You get a big spike, especially with an external controller which frequently frys the transformer in the charger.
Consider yourself lucky it hasn't died.

I had a Cosmo 8amp charger for which I paid FF182 in Lorient. which kept going despite continual engine starts and the work of servicing about 300AH which lasted for 14 years. It would appear that more modern all-singing and dancing switch-mode chargers are far more likely to blow up than older ones.

With regard to Charles Sterling - he's self-opinionated, doesn't suffer fools gladly (which puts him in company with many members of this site), but is a good engineer and will listen if you forcibly argue your case.

 

[ianj99]

Ianj99 is adamant that nothing he did was the cause ("he would say that, wouldn't he"), and Sterling offer a discount on their new (and more expensive) model as an act of goodwill while declining responsibility. It's a bummer that it can't be repaired but do we really expect the supplier to maintain stocks of possibly obsolete parts for superseded models?

Had we been talking about a five year old model I would agree that its tough luck. But NOT a barely 3year old model which has NOT been mistreated in an way.
Put yourself in my position, would you really shrug it off as bad luck..?

Why does the OFT state that a retailers responsibility last for 6 years (5 in Scotland) regardless of the warranty? Surely you aren't saying that this is unfair and you should just treat out of warranty failures as '**** happens' and let the retailer or manufacturer off the hook?

I don't know when the Procharge D was superceded, but even if it was two years ago I don't think it unreasonable for spares not still to be available. I suspect, that the pcbs are assembled in the Far East and Sterling just don't have the ability to repair them and in fact laugh all the way to the bank when they sell the customer another unit, even at a discount.

Some of you clearly have no idea of how to run a business in retailing - your customers are your biggest asset and a free sales force if you look after them. Charles Sterling doesn't give a hoot.

 

[ianj99]

Don't know why you need a 60 amp charger - suggests you have 1200AH of battery capacity - it also seriously limits choice, will need plenty of air circulation to keep cool and takes you into the area of serious money.

In the UK:-

CTek - Swedish design, small and efficient, reasonably priced but seriously smaller than the output for what you're looking. http://www.ctek.com/

Sterling - gives multi outlets so you can charge 3 battery banks - makes considerable claims - reasonable prices and performance.

Victron - Dutch, top price, top reputation usually used in bigger boats - the chargers at the lower end probably are range fillers, re-badged and bought in.
http://www.victronenergy.com/

If you have multi-battery banks I'd suggest you look at several C-Tek chargers for redundancy, cost-saving and precision of charge.
They have a mass-market, high throughput manufacturing operation, an extremely good international reputation (though a fairly recent entry into the UK) good back-up.

There are many others:
German Voltcraft which I have opted to try
Numax http://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-Commercial-Battery-Charger-30A-P6140.html
or This one http://www.amperorassociates.co.uk/c-battery_chargers/BatteryC-3_18A.html

Its no longer necessary to spend mega bucks on one.

They may be only single output, but I now favour using multiple chargers or one charger and a change over switch.

 

[Tranona]

Had we been talking about a five year old model I would agree that its tough luck. But NOT a barely 3year old model which has NOT been mistreated in an way.
Put yourself in my position, would you really shrug it off as bad luck..?

Why does the OFT state that a retailers responsibility last for 6 years (5 in Scotland) regardless of the warranty? Surely you aren't saying that this is unfair and you should just treat out of warranty failures as '**** happens' and let the retailer or manufacturer off the hook?

I don't know when the Procharge D was superceded, but even if it was two years ago I don't think it unreasonable for spares not still to be available. I suspect, that the pcbs are assembled in the Far East and Sterling just don't have the ability to repair them and in fact laugh all the way to the bank when they sell the customer another unit, even at a discount.

Some of you clearly have no idea of how to run a business in retailing - your customers are your biggest asset and a free sales force if you look after them. Charles Sterling doesn't give a hoot.

Can't see why you go on about this. Nowhere have you established that the failure was due to faulty design or manufacture. The maker says it is not. You still have to prove him wrong. Not a very satisfactory state of affairs, but he could be right. He is under no obligation to replace or repair your property free of charge and he has offered a goodwill contribution, which you refused.

There is nothing out of the ordinary about his response. Doubt you would get any different response from any other manufacturer of a low cost consumer product.

 

[ianj99]

Can't see why you go on about this. Nowhere have you established that the failure was due to faulty design or manufacture. The maker says it is not. You still have to prove him wrong. Not a very satisfactory state of affairs, but he could be right. He is under no obligation to replace or repair your property free of charge and he has offered a goodwill contribution, which you refused.

There is nothing out of the ordinary about his response. Doubt you would get any different response from any other manufacturer of a low cost consumer product.

How can a consumer prove it is a component failure? Sterling's technician told me that it was due to failure of a transistor so you are incorrect to say "The maker says it is not".
Its obvious that any manufacturer is going to deny liability - that is why the sale of goods act exists - it gives power to an independent body (the courts) to decide. I doubt that same techncian would be allowed to give evidence.
Sorry Tranona but we have vastly different ideas of what is reasonable, and yours tend all too often, to favour businesses and mine the consumer but I respect everyone's right to their views.

 

[Tranona]

How can a consumer prove it is a component failure? Sterling's technician told me that it was due to failure of a transistor so you are incorrect to say "The maker says it is not".
Its obvious that any manufacturer is going to deny liability - that is why the sale of goods act exists - it gives power to an independent body (the courts) to decide. I doubt that same techncian would be allowed to give evidence.
Sorry Tranona but we have vastly different ideas of what is reasonable, and yours tend all too often, to favour businesses and mine the consumer but I respect everyone's right to their views.

This is the first time you have said what component failed. Did they explain why it could not be repaired? You have still not established that the failure was because of faulty design or manufacture. The manufacturer seems to be saying that it is not.

Not siding with the manufacturer. As has already been pointed out that even if you could prove it was a manufacturing fault you would not necessarily be entitled to a full refund or replacement, but only to a proportion of the cost, which you have already been offered.

It may well be that it is a rubbish product, but it outlived the warranty period and you can't expect the maker to accept responsibility if he does not think the failure is his fault, which seems to be the case here. Maybe he is being unreasonable, but not sure it is as clear cut as you imagine.

 

[sailorman]

This is the first time you have said what component failed. Did they explain why it could not be repaired? You have still not established that the failure was because of faulty design or manufacture. The manufacturer seems to be saying that it is not.

Not siding with the manufacturer. As has already been pointed out that even if you could prove it was a manufacturing fault you would not necessarily be entitled to a full refund or replacement, but only to a proportion of the cost, which you have already been offered.

It may well be that it is a rubbish product, but it outlived the warranty period and you can't expect the maker to accept responsibility if he does not think the failure is his fault, which seems to be the case here. Maybe he is being unreasonable, but not sure it is as clear cut as you imagine.

#13

 

[awol]

....... I don't think it unreasonable for spares not still to be available.

Glad we agree (I think!).

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, you appear to have been the victim of a failed transistor, an item that probably passed through more than half a dozen hands before being sold to you as part of a power supply. Why you want to hang it on Sterling rather than any of the others with whom you have no contractual relationship, I don't understand. Take it back to the retailer who sold you the thing.

 

[Westerly Jetstream]

Take it to an electronics shop and get an estimate for repair. I regularly repair Volvo electromagnetic supercharger clutches which are encapsulated and supposed to be non service. So I dug one out one day and found the FET had burnt out,quick call to RS and I had a packet of 10 FETs on my desk next morning for less than£1. I've since repaired 4 more of the wee blighters rather than pay Volvo over£300 for a new one.

 

[contessaman]

sorry I haven't read all 6 pages of this thread, but I must add a similar story... some years ago we bought a new procharge, fitted it to our yacht. just after the warranty expired (typical!) the thing spontaneously combusted when my wife was aboard. she was terrified and the cabin was filled with acrid smoke. had there not been somebody aboard at the time to kill the ac power it could well have burned the whole boat. worse still if my family were asleep aboard - it doesnt bear thinking about. I was furious and had the charred remains examined where it transpired that a defect ended up putting 240v staight across a little electrolytic capacitor which just combusted. I threatened stirling with all sorts, in the end they 'offered' to give me a discount on a new charger. To recoup some of my money I did this and sold the thing because no charger of theirs was ever going to be left aboard my boat. We now have an 80w walk on solar panel on the deck and its brilliant.

I would not recommend their stuff at all!

 

[Boo2]

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I have been considering a Sterling Ultimate Charger PCU1260 12v 60amp for some time.

http://www.shop.sterling-power.com/...og/&WD=pcu1260&PN=shop.html#aPCU1260#aPCU1260

What are my other options for a charger of this capacity?

+1. Good question.

I had been considering the same charger or else the 40/50 A versions of it but I have to say that this thread has put me off more than a bit. If Sterling chargers cannot stand an engine start when the mains is connected, or if their chargers die within 3 years for no explicable reason (as has been reported in this thread by several people, some with more than one instance) then IMO they are NFG.

Sorry chaps but I absolutely do not concur with Tranona / Charles Reed saying it is all understandable and fair enough : if I spend £200-£500 on a boat charger I expect it to cope with boat conditions and also to cope with the engine being started and run.

If Sterling can't stand the heat they should get out of the kitchen and stop blaming their customers for their products' unreliability, the behaviour reported by the OP does not constitute rectifying the issue in my book, and I will certainly be looking elsewhere.

Boo2

 

[sailorman]

sorry I haven't read all 6 pages of this thread, but I must add a similar story... some years ago we bought a new procharge, fitted it to our yacht. just after the warranty expired (typical!) the thing spontaneously combusted when my wife was aboard. she was terrified and the cabin was filled with acrid smoke. had there not been somebody aboard at the time to kill the ac power it could well have burned the whole boat. worse still if my family were asleep aboard - it doesnt bear thinking about. I was furious and had the charred remains examined where it transpired that a defect ended up putting 240v staight across a little electrolytic capacitor which just combusted. I threatened stirling with all sorts, in the end they 'offered' to give me a discount on a new charger. To recoup some of my money I did this and sold the thing because no charger of theirs was ever going to be left aboard my boat. We now have an 80w walk on solar panel on the deck and its brilliant.

I would not recommend their stuff at all!

what make of panel do you have & how long has it been in service

 

[ianj99]

Glad we agree (I think!).

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, you appear to have been the victim of a failed transistor, an item that probably passed through more than half a dozen hands before being sold to you as part of a power supply. Why you want to hang it on Sterling rather than any of the others with whom you have no contractual relationship, I don't understand. Take it back to the retailer who sold you the thing.

I've asked the marina chandlery buyer if they've had a problem with these chargers and will await their response. In the meantime I have asked Sterling to return it for investigation by another forumite. Hopefully he can repair it and will make me an offer for it.

I fully accept that the retailor is legally liable but since I have a good relationship with the marina, I have no plans to fall out with them over this. I was instead relying on Sterling to charge me for repairing it, which would be a lot less than the £245 they want for a replacement. (if product failures were rare, Sterling would repair or replace without question as it's hardy going to dent their profits, and this would maintain their reputation and have resulted in a completely different thread than this)

 

[emnick]

I was also looking for a replacement circa 40a charger. I appreciate that things go wrong with electronic devices on board but would you accept say the ECU going wrong on your car after 3 years, it also works in a harsh environment etc. I wouldn't and they are perhaps more complicated.

I would think twice before I order now (thanks for the original OP)

IMHO it's the attitude of the maker that makes this thread interseting, he appears not to give a hoot about customers (I appreciate not direct customer this time) but looking back at past threads with Sterling products this would be a common denominator .
I had a similar reaction with ultra LEDs and would not go near them again, similar attitude!!

It looks like three people are now reconsidering Sterlings products and perhaps in the back of others minds it will ring a bell when they are looking for a replacement. This attitude or not suffering fools etc is costing him customers it would appear.

 

[Happydaze]

Surges in the mains power supply in marinas, especially abroad, must be a fairly common occurance with moving pontoons and the wet surroundings. If these chargers are built without internal protection for surges, what are peoples views on fitting anti-surge protection like this one,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electromart...22/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1363781678&sr=8-14

It won't help the op situation but would it help protect what I call a fairly costly item in the future.

 

[ianj99]

Surges in the mains power supply in marinas, especially abroad, must be a fairly common occurance with moving pontoons and the wet surroundings. If these chargers are built without internal protection for surges, what are peoples views on fitting anti-surge protection like this one,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electromart...22/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1363781678&sr=8-14

It won't help the op situation but would it help protect what I call a fairly costly item in the future.

As it happens the charger was plugged into a surge protected 4gang outlet which also supplied all my other mains gear.

IMHO it's the attitude of the maker that makes this thread interseting, he appears not to give a hoot about customers (I appreciate not direct customer this time) but looking back at past threads with Sterling products this would be a common denominator .
I had a similar reaction with ultra LEDs and would not go near them again, similar attitude!!

This is the crux - you need confidence in the product and that when the unexpected happens, you'll be looked after.

 

[contessaman]

what make of panel do you have & how long has it been in service

Its one of these chinese semi-flexible ebay jobs. they sell them from a warehouse in the UK. only cost a few hundred. Its made up on an aluminium plate on which the cells are laid out and covered in some form of resin (they call it tedlar). I thought it might be rubbish so I stuck it on the coachroof with CT1 so I could remove it easily. Its been coming up to 2 years service. I have walked all over it. the surface is very tough its not scratched much. no noticable degradation in output from new. I was annoyed with it at first because I sort of expected 4-5 amps but I suspect thats only ever achievable on a spacecraft in a low orbit around the sun! However, it does kick out an amp or two relentlessly. I feed it to both my domestic and starter battery banks through a maplin dual regulator. I dont keep track of amps in and out but I regularly stay on the boat for a few days with the eberspacher on and the batteries are always fully charged. I have also changed all of my cabin light bulbs for warm white LED ones and my nav lights are now LED too. Only real bad point is that the wire eminates from the panel under a siliconed-on black piece of plastic. both this and the wire itself are rubbish. I pre-empted failure and when I mounted the panel, I carefully cut the plastic off, chopped the wires down to stumps soldered some decent wire on which then goes through a deck gland and built up with epoxy putty around where the wire comes out. this has lasted well apart from dome sun yellowing of the putty.

shore power = fire hazard. possible galvanic action. and some bu*£er pinching my electric when im not at the marina.

solar panel + inverter = free, eco friendly and works wherever the boat is. Im a convert.