sailorman
Well-Known Member
do you have a link pls
Sterling charger failed after less than 3years and they want £245 to replace
- Thread starter ianj99
- Start date
do you have a link pls
contessaman
Well-Known Member
sailorman, its like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80W-12V-S...00810542087?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2ec13db407
Im not sure if this was the same outfit I bought it from a few years back but it was definately a 'lensun' panel. If you search in ebay 40w flexible, 60w flexible, 80w flexible etc and then choose uk items you will see a range. be careful to check feedback as some are pretending to be in the UK but are in fact overseas and you may then have a customs faff etc. As we now have a deck saloon I could fit the big 80w panel (in fact I could have fitted 2) on top of the wheelhouse but it may be more convenient for you to fit a couple of 40's or even 4x 20w on your oyster. this might have several advantages over my one horizontally mounted panel; if im sailing on a tack that has the panel away from the sun I loose a lot of power. if you went for a few smaller ones either side or at an angle you may go some way to reduce this effect.
heres the reg Im using:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/dual-16a-solar-charge-regulator-266145
To elaborate further on the attachment. I alternated a bead of CT-1 then a bead of external 'grab' adhesive. this worked well because I had to bend the panel to the curve of the deck and I didnt fancy holding it while the CT-1 set as it was pretty springy. I doubt the cheapo external grab is doing much now but the CT-1 certainly is and its not going anywhere. I figure the only way to get it off would be to peel and cut with a thin wire like a guitar string. hopefully not necessary anyway!
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Many thanks
sailinglegend420
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you bought this up, I was going to ask why ONLY a 60 amp charger - but this is the maximum Stirling make.
I think you should always go for the maximum sized shorepower charger that your batteries bank will support - and for a 60 amp charger that would only be 60 x 4 = a 240 Ah bank, not 1200Ah.
You seem to have made major error in your calculations!! The recommended charger size is capacity (C)/5 or 20%, not C/20! To account for the load from the boat and the losses in the charging circuits then C/5 or 25% is better. Too many people opt for a much lower shorepower charger because they think that overnight in a marina they will get back to 100%. But the Charging Gotcha gets-ya and even though you are in float mode by the time you leave in the morning your batteries could still only be at 90% SOC.
Also make sure a shorepower chargers has a proper equalization setting that goes up to 15.5 volts or more. This helps revive battery efficiency and extend battery life if you have open flooded LA batteries, or Lifeline AGMs.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
This is how to keep customer loyalty & spread ( the correct ) word about one`s product.
It is also very cheap & effective advertising.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?353558-Well-done-Douglas-Gill
It is also very cheap & effective advertising.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?353558-Well-done-Douglas-Gill
ianj99
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. Charles are you taking note?
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
I have to seriously disagree with your theories.
Suggest you look at Victron website - where they give an informed opinion of the size of charger you should be using for the appropriate size of battery bank.
ianj99
Well-Known Member
This assumes the batteries have been discharged below 40%.
In practice, assuming 100ah remaining then it would take 2 hours of bulk charging at 60amps, (120ah to allow for inefficiency) then at least another 2 hours to actually reach 100%. (bulk charge time is stated as being about 50% of the total charge time) This is an oversimplification but it does mean an overnight charge would easily leave the batteries 100% charged.
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Mistroma
Well-Known Member
Charles, I don't have AGM so would expect to get away with a much smaller charger than sailinglegend420. However, I believe that my boat would still benefit from a larger charger. It's been a while since I checked out the Victron site or read their book so I had a look at the site. Can you let me have the link to the relevant part as I couldn't find the information you mention?
I have a 450Ah domestic bank of T105s and Trojan suggest limiting charge to 10-13% of capacity. So that would mean I'd put in 45A - 59A
If charge efficiency is pretty high at 50% DOD (say 95%) then I need a charger to output 47A - 62A
Assuming average base consumption in region of 3A, then I should have a charger of 50A - 65A
So I'd assumed that a 60A charger would just about be OK. i.e. Push a fair bit back into batteries but never above max. suggested by Trojan.
I think that is actually a fairly conservative size of charger but you are suggesting 60A for a 1200Ah bank (23A for my 450Ah bank)
I'm usually not in a marina for long and also use the mains charger via small genny. Were you only discussing boats connected to shorepower for most of the time?
My copy of Victron's book "Energy Unlimited" comes up with similar or higher figures 45A - 90A (without including baseline loads)
Page 24:
For big battery banks it is advisable to limit the current to C/5 or, even better, C/10, meaning that 10 to 20 % of the
total capacity is charged per hour. For example 100 A to 200 A for a 1000 Ah battery.
A less expensive smaller battery bank is often charged, although this may reduce service life, at a higher rate,
for example C/3.
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BlueChip
Well-Known Member
Of course he isn't, posts like this with examples of his outrageous dinosaur style customer service come up from time to time and there are many forumites who will never buy another product from his company again because of an unpleasant experience dealing with him in the past.
I had the misfortune to buy an early smart charger from him and complain about the switch position instructions which were factually incorrect and just didn't make sense. After his rude response I'll never buy anything from him again.
nigelmercier
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Quite. But the answer is because they start to get really expensive after that.
My current 30A charger is pitifully undersized for my 600Ah+ batteries, and the 60A seemed a good compromise. I have Lifeline AGMs, and my charger doesn't have a setting for these, I also want equalisation as you later mention. I could get a separate charger for my starter battery, as this has a different construction anyway.
purplerobbie
Well-Known Member
I have just fitted the sterling 40 amp charger to my boat after the marina supplied the boat with 415 volts. I have to say that whenever i phoned sterling for fitting advice they where helpful and polite (except the irish bloke who shouldnt really deal with the public)
Everythig has a life span which is probably measured in hours. If you live aboard and are putting a load on the battery charger all day every day its not going to last anywhere near as long as one that is used only at weekends.
Everythig has a life span which is probably measured in hours. If you live aboard and are putting a load on the battery charger all day every day its not going to last anywhere near as long as one that is used only at weekends.
sailinglegend420
Well-Known Member
Another reason for a large shorepower charger that I forgot to mention is if you have an AC genny that will charger much faster, and therefore not need to run as long.
If you have Lifeline AGMs then you need to give them as much charge as you can afford to justify their high cost in the first place! They will then charge even faster than the 30% claimed on the tin. Lifeline say 20% of capacity is the absolute minimum you should use. At 50% discharge they will take 130%. - that's 130 amps into a 100 Ah battery, or for your bank you should be using a 780 amp charger - obviously impractical.
Ask Mr Sterling about charging batteries. In one of his brochures called "Advanced Battery Charging- Dispelling wives tales" he happily puts 160 amps into a 100 Ah battery and claims a 457% increase in charging current using his high 14.8 volt chargers. The man's an IDIOT!
sailinglegend420
Well-Known Member
You seriously disagree with everybody's theories - without coming up with facts that are accurate. Victron clearly support my theories - I should I say I support their well proven and well written and very informative documentation.
sailinglegend420
Well-Known Member
This is perhaps the most miss-understood boat electrics topic, and a myth quoted by all regulator manufacturers:
“Batteries are fully charged when the regulator drops down to a float voltage.”
In practice the batteries may have only reached a 90-95 % charge and then they sit at this low float voltage, charging at a much lower current. It could be 12 hours or more hours before they reach 100% charge.
This is a problem with all charging regulators, including alternator and shorepower regulators. They don't know the capacity of the batteries, and they don’t measure the current going into the battery. This “Charging Gotcha” or as one American website calls it - “Premature Efloatulation”, is the reason for premature battery failure. The diagnosis is simple, as soon as your charger drops to float check the charging current going into the batteries and then switch the charge source off any way you can, and then back on. You can try this easily with shorepower, or with the alternator on the engine. Turn the ignition off and on, this won’t stop the engine but will reset the alternator. With solar you may have to remove the fuse to reset the regulator. This will force the charger back into boost mode at a voltage of about 14.4 volts. If the charge current goes up by a factor of 4 or 5 then the batteries still need charging. The permanent cure for Premature Efloatulation is much more complicated and involves spending money on good charge controllers that can be re-programmed to suit your size of battery bank and your Ah usage.
nigelmercier
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I'm building a time switch to do exactly this: switch of at midnight and 0400 for 5 minutes each time.
ianj99
Well-Known Member
I received the charger back today and decided to open it. As far as I am concerned it was never even opened and the pcb was certanly never slide out of the housing.
How do I know? Because the front cooling fan wires had become stuck to the hot melt glue on a neaby choke, meaning the cover could not be lifted away without peeling them off the glue. (which I did easily) AND the 9 transitors clamped onto the side with thermal paste under them had clearly never moved as the paste was still in its original position - ie no signs of it having been reapplied during reassembly.
So there we have it. Looks like they can't or won't repair them, so just want to sell you another at a discount... its win win for them.
How do I know? Because the front cooling fan wires had become stuck to the hot melt glue on a neaby choke, meaning the cover could not be lifted away without peeling them off the glue. (which I did easily) AND the 9 transitors clamped onto the side with thermal paste under them had clearly never moved as the paste was still in its original position - ie no signs of it having been reapplied during reassembly.
So there we have it. Looks like they can't or won't repair them, so just want to sell you another at a discount... its win win for them.
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ianj99
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree but is it worth going to the trouble and expense for that last 5%? Maybe if you don't have shorepower available for long periods it is.
ianj99
Well-Known Member
That Irish bloke is Mr Sterling....
sailinglegend420
Well-Known Member
Interesting idea, but I would sooner be monitoring the situation all the time. There is a danger that the batteries could be sitting at absorption voltage far too long and be "overcharged".
During the absorption phase of charging the batteries are maybe at their gassing voltage of 14.4 volts for 4 hours or more with no problems, there can be a very small amounts of gassing but the electrical energy from the current is charging the batteries. It is only when the batteries are fully charged, and still sitting at the gassing voltage, that this voltage will causes the batteries to gas more heavily. By reducing the charge voltage from 14.4v to a float of 13.8v or less, gassing will stop, but the charging current will reduce dramatically. It is worth noting that gassing voltage are based on battery temperature, 14.4v of 25C, 13.98v at 40ºC.
This has little long term affect of flooded batteries which can be topped up, but we should accept that battery gassing can be a problem for sealed batteries and we should do all we can to protect them from gassing. Gassing is good for batteries to mix the electrolyte, but not excessive gassing.
The answer is to have regulators or controllers that can all be set to match your boat setup, so that the absorption phase can be made much longer. My Morningstar MPPT controller will stop the float stage altogether if the battery voltage falls too low overnight. There are a dozen other charging features you can change - the same with my Balmar ARS5 regulator.
Regulators drop down too float early to protect batteries. They are designed to charge batteries not overcharge them. They should all be user programmable.