Steering stiffening up

[Laundryman]

The steering on my Bavaria 39 cruiser 2006 has started stiffening up. Whereas I have no doubt that the bottom Rudder bearing is the culprit, I had planned a 2 week cruise to the Channel Islands with the family on the 25 th of May so the timing is inconvenient to say the least. I have been pouring oil down the rudder tube from inside the transome but no joy. Looks like I will have to be lifted out and either diy or pay the price. Can someone please tell me, are rudder bearings of the shelf or do they need to be made or ordered?. Looks like it will be diy because I can’t imagine the yard will have a slot for the work in the next 2 weeks. Any advice as to a quick fix so that I can do the job properly after the cruise would be very welcome. Thanks. Alan

 

[coopec]

Alan
I bought mine off the shelf. Of course it had to be the right diam and about 100mm (4 in.) and I epoxied it into the bearing holder. I bought mine from a crowd that specialised in supplying props, Dripless seals, Cutlass bearings etc

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...XJjLwKHbOKALEQ_AUoAnoECAAQBA&biw=1077&bih=587

I made up my rudder stock in three parts so I could easily replace bearings.




Also you should read this YBW thread
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?160498-Bavaria-39-steering-problem&

Apparently Bavaria recognize it as a problem?
http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0


Clive

 

[rogerthebodger]

Alan
I bought mine off the shelf. Of course it had to be the right diam and about 100mm (4 in.) and I epoxied it into the bearing holder. I bought mine from a crowd that specialised in supplying props, Dripless seals, Cutlass bearings etc

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...XJjLwKHbOKALEQ_AUoAnoECAAQBA&biw=1077&bih=587

I made up my rudder stock in three parts so I could easily replace bearings.

View attachment 71032


Also you should read this YBW thread
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?160498-Bavaria-39-steering-problem&

Apparently Bavaria recognize it as a problem?
http://bavariayacht.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0


Clive

Hi Clive

Just a couple of comments.

You don't have a cut out in you rudder. Can you still remove the prop shaft without removing the rudder.

I fitted a couple of attachments to the rubber so it can be suspended while the coupling is disconnected and to allow the rudder to be lifted away

An attachment point also allows for a line to be attached to the rudder so if the top of your rudder shaft breaks a lines can be used to move the rudder.

 

[Norman_E]

The most likely cause of stiffness is swelling of the bearing material, which means you will not need to buy a new bearing or have the job of trying to get the bearing out of its housing. You need to plan the job so that when the boat is lifted out you can drop the rudder, so its best to have the boat placed where you can dig a hole beneath the rudder if necessary, i.e not on concrete. With the rudder out you should polish out any roughness on the shaft, and carefully scrape out any build up of dirt, salt, or scale inside the bearing. If a good clean up does not allow the rudder to turn easily you should open up the bearing a bit. How best to do that is a problem. I would try using a triangular bearing scraper to remove small shavings of material, which is a long and tedious process; others might suggest using abrasives. I don't think that using oil was a good idea, as it might have caused further swelling of the bearing material which is intended to be water lubricated.

On my boat (Jeanneau 45.2) the bottom rudder bearing is about half a millimetre slack on the shaft and the boat seems none the worse for it, the surveyor saying that it was well within acceptable limits.

 

[RichardS]

With my bearings (doughnut type self-aligning Acetal/Delrin in an alloy carrier) it's just a matter of rubbing away the marine growth from the surface of the alloy with a wire brush/scotchbrite pad and cleaning everything up, greasing with waterproof grease and re-assembling. I've done each of mine twice now over 10 years and the only time I had any problem was when I left it too long and one rudder got stiffer and stiffer until it seized. Getting the shaft out was then a major problem so don't let it get too stiff. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Brent Swain]

I have used $1.39 grey plastic hose barbs for rudder bearings for decades.They have done circumnavigations ,with no sign of serious wear.
Probably the same material as $80 ones, but no one would trust them, if they charged their real price.

 

[coopec]

Brent
Geeez! You remind me of the solo yachtsman who sailed to Christmas Island (Indian Ocean) with nothing more than a school atlas to find his way!

Just had a thought: you aren't the guy I am reminiscing about are you?

Clive

 

[lpdsn]

The steering on my Bavaria 39 cruiser 2006 has started stiffening up. Whereas I have no doubt that the bottom Rudder bearing is the culprit, I had planned a 2 week cruise to the Channel Islands with the family on the 25 th of May so the timing is inconvenient to say the least. I have been pouring oil down the rudder tube from inside the transome but no joy. Looks like I will have to be lifted out and either diy or pay the price. Can someone please tell me, are rudder bearings of the shelf or do they need to be made or ordered?. Looks like it will be diy because I can’t imagine the yard will have a slot for the work in the next 2 weeks. Any advice as to a quick fix so that I can do the job properly after the cruise would be very welcome. Thanks. Alan

It's quite likely that the rudder bearing has absorbed a bit of water and swollen. Bavarias, unlike Dehlers, aren't famous for it but...

Don't leave it for too long as it'll be hard to get the rudder out. I always wince when I see someone having to hammer a chock between the hull and the top of the rudder, but if it were me I'd risk leaving it to the end of the season.

Don't use oil or grease whatever you do. These lower bearings are designed to be water lubricated. The PO used grease on mine and I ended up with a horrible mess of dry grease and salt after she'd been out of the water for a few months, but I was able to leave it till the next liftout before fixing it. I dropped the rudder and shaved the inside of the bearing.

 

[Tranona]

The steering on my Bavaria 39 cruiser 2006 has started stiffening up. Whereas I have no doubt that the bottom Rudder bearing is the culprit, I had planned a 2 week cruise to the Channel Islands with the family on the 25 th of May so the timing is inconvenient to say the least. I have been pouring oil down the rudder tube from inside the transome but no joy. Looks like I will have to be lifted out and either diy or pay the price. Can someone please tell me, are rudder bearings of the shelf or do they need to be made or ordered?. Looks like it will be diy because I can’t imagine the yard will have a slot for the work in the next 2 weeks. Any advice as to a quick fix so that I can do the job properly after the cruise would be very welcome. Thanks. Alan

You can get the lower bearing from Jefa, although i suspect that Clipper Marine will also have them in stock. it may be not just the bearing but corrosion in the carrier so best to drop the rudder first to see what needs to be done.

 

[Tranona]

I have used $1.39 grey plastic hose barbs for rudder bearings for decades.They have done circumnavigations ,with no sign of serious wear.
Probably the same material as $80 ones, but no one would trust them, if they charged their real price.

Completely useless information for the OP as he has a boat with a properly engineered self aligning bearing and a spade rudder.

 

[Brent Swain]

Brent
Geeez! You remind me of the solo yachtsman who sailed to Christmas Island (Indian Ocean) with nothing more than a school atlas to find his way!

Just had a thought: you aren't the guy I am reminiscing about are you?
(Quote)

Geeeze! You remind me of the thousands of wannabe cruisers, with their boats permanently in marinas, going to work every day to provide money to the folks selling 39 cents worth of plastic for $80, etc etc, making a good living off playing them for consumer suckers, and charging them a fortune for stuff they dont need.
Seeing thru that game has allowed me to cruise, mostly full time, since my mid 20s ,while those who suggest I do what they are doing, have spent their entire lives working to pay for such a con game.

 

[lpdsn]

Geeeze! You remind me of the thousands of wannabe cruisers, with their boats permanently in marinas, going to work every day to provide money to the folks selling 39 cents worth of plastic for $80, etc etc, making a good living off playing them for consumer suckers, and charging them a fortune for stuff they dont need.

You can actually get the right material quite cheaply from online wholesalers. Not for 39c as you do want the right stuff not cheap rubbish. Cost me £24 (and half of that was postage) for enough Delrin to make up five new jib car blocks.

For lower bearings I'd definitely want to double check the exact spec to avoid water absorbtion, but there was a forumite that knew his stuff on that. Don't remember seeing him recently.

 

[Brent Swain]

You can actually get the right material quite cheaply from online wholesalers. Not for 39c as you do want the right stuff not cheap rubbish. Cost me £24 (and half of that was postage) for enough Delrin to make up five new jib car blocks.

For lower bearings I'd definitely want to double check the exact spec to avoid water absorbtion, but there was a forumite that knew his stuff on that. Don't remember seeing him recently.

You could always let any plastic soak in water for a few days before machining, for accurate machining of swollen plastic
Why would I spend so much on something which I can buy for $1.39, which is every bit as good, which I can buy ready made to replace it anywhere, without having to machine it? Cruising budgets die the death of a thousand cuts. No one item kills them, but the accumulation of many. Apply your logic of "Why not spend and extra 20 times as much on any one item," to an entire boat and crusing budget, and you remain tied to the dock forever.

 

[RichardS]

It's quite likely that the rudder bearing has absorbed a bit of water and swollen. Bavarias, unlike Dehlers, aren't famous for it but...

Don't leave it for too long as it'll be hard to get the rudder out. I always wince when I see someone having to hammer a chock between the hull and the top of the rudder, but if it were me I'd risk leaving it to the end of the season.

Don't use oil or grease whatever you do. These lower bearings are designed to be water lubricated. The PO used grease on mine and I ended up with a horrible mess of dry grease and salt after she'd been out of the water for a few months, but I was able to leave it till the next liftout before fixing it. I dropped the rudder and shaved the inside of the bearing.

I'm afraid I disagree about the grease. When my Port rudder seized because of alloy corrosion and tightening of the housing around the self-aligning bearing I had to get the yard to get it out. The mechanic greased everything and we re-assembled it. That was 3 years ago. The year after I dropped the Stb rudder and removed and greased both upper and lower doughnuts with proper waterproof calcium grease. Since then we have done the North Adriatic coast of Croatia was well as Venice so a few hundred miles and both rudders have been fine.

However, as we were in the hoist a couple of days ago I decided to drop both rudders again. We started on the Port rudder and the shaft jammed halfway out. We could not budge it up or down. I then squirted 20 mls of Hydrochloric acid past the lip seal at the top of the rudder tube using a syringe and hypo needle. After a bit of fizzing and acid running everywhere we managed to drop it. There was no grease left anywhere on the bearings or the shaft and I had to scour/polish up the doughnuts and housings to get them shining again.

The Stb rudder simply fell out as soon as I released the through bolt. The top and bottom bearings and the shaft were absolutely covered with the waterproof grease and I really needn't have bothered. When I cleaned all the grease off with a cloth the alloy on the inside of the bearing cages was like a polished mirror and the doughnuts were also perfect. All I had to do was re-grease the whole lot and put it back together.

The moral of this story is that a lot of grease, and the right kind of grease, will last many years and totally stops the alloy corrosion which is the rudder killer.

Richard

 

[lpdsn]

You could always let any plastic soak in water for a few days before machining, for accurate machining of swollen plastic

Why would I spend so much on something which I can buy for $1.39, which is every bit as good...

Let it soak for a decade or so maybe with some cycling of pressure. Or of course just research the spec.

Or you could just do it the cowboy way with a $1.39c lump of plastic from the Pound store (bit of inflation from your earlier post by the way).

Personally, considering the huge forces on a rudder that the bearing takes I wouldn't want to skimp on a few quid and the cost of getting it made up. My rudder stock is only 75mm dia s/s so I wouldn't want the extra force from a dodgy bearing to fall on that and put it at risk.

 

[Brent Swain]

One could tap in a 1/8th inch pipe thread and screw in a grease gun hose on the top of the rudder tube, and permanently mount the grease gun, to give it a few strokes from time to time. Did that with my stern tube 30 years ago, and it has worked well ,as it has for freinds who have been using the same trick for longer.
Or, you could be realy gullible, and spend $80 for$1.39 worth of plastic.

 

[dom]

Don't leave it for too long as it'll be hard to get the rudder out. I always wince when I see someone having to hammer a chock between the hull and the top of the rudder...

A wedge ...fine I spose if definitely replacing housing! The usual trick with a jammed stock is to pull a crane over and use an accrow against one of its crossbeams to gradually force out the rudder stock.

Laundryman, if you are doing this before hols, I'd lift and drop rudder ASAP, then get some pics on here. If you can source the relevant bits great, if not there are many top-notch machine shops around and the guys at HYS use them all the time.

10 days is plenty of time (unless something is really wrong) if you can get lifted pronto and source the bits. Was the boat out over winter? If not you cld splosh on some new a/f at the same time

BTW, you might want to choose an 'open' yard where anyone can work on your boat. Good luck!

 

[Bobc]

Clipper have them in stock, and if you are a BOA member don't forget that you get a discount (which is worth more than the cost of membership).

 

[Laundryman]

Thank you everyone for the advice. The earliest lift out is next Tuesday which is cutting it fine. If all the parts aren't readily available I may end up just dropping the rudder, cleaning the shaft and persuading the bearing to open slightly. I know its only delaying the inevitable but at the moment, my family are blissfully unaware and looking forward to a 2 week cruise. I will keep you informed of my progress with pictures! Thanks Alan

 

[dom]

Good luck, look at this vid, and disconnect everything ready for a drop while boat in slings. Reverse on launch. Can save quite a lot of digging/crane costs if rudder not stuck:

https://youtu.be/9upUBC2tu1c