Steering Ram play - Volvo DP

[alt]

In the never ending project that is my friend's Sealine, we have found another issue... massive play in the steerm arm (both up /down and left/right).

Bit of history....
When we removed the out-drive some time ago, the steering helmet pretty much fell down (I thought it was supposed to be held with a bolt on the steering arm... which is there and tightened!)

When steering helmet removed, I noticed the splines on the vertical shaft of the steering helmet were seriously worn. I recommended to replace steering helmet, but the response was 'no'.

So, i'm guessing that the play in the video below is due to the worn splines on the steering helmet shaft?

Should the steering arm also be replaced? (I'm guessing yes).

From the link below, should the bushings and 'ring', items 2 / 3 / 14 also be replaced? https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7745630-44-19573B.aspx

Anything else that should be replaced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIxk34wcrI

I warned my friend to walk away from this boat, but what do I know!!

 

[tico]

Yuk! Appendages and shirt sleeves springs to mind.

 

[dpb]

2/3/14 and likely 4, the helmet as well. That was the case on mine and there was no where near that much play. Water gets to the helmet shaft and corrodes it so that it cannot form a seal through the transom.
Hard to see how the splines got worn as the steering arm just clamps onto them, unless the clamp bolt was loose, allowing movement.

 

[BruceK]

With that much play I would also be measuring the shield as well, because chances are that will now have to be replaced too

 

[alt]

With that much play I would also be measuring the shield as well, because chances are that will now have to be replaced too

He'd love to hear that!! (not!)

When I had the steering helmet removed, there wasn't actually any real play between the helmet and the shield.

What I did notice on his boat (it's about a 1986 with AQAD41's ... I forget what DP model the outdrives are), was that between the helmet 'shaft' and the shield, there was like a double sided rubber seal... I don't see this in any diagrams, and I can't see it on my DP-G drives... any ideas? (This is outside the boat, not internally).

For what it's worth, there is no water leaking up the helmet shaft into the transom... although that could be because I packed it with grease after re-inserting).

Bad news for my friend is that part 14 isin't available anymore, from what I read in the past, the whole steering helmet is sold as 1 unit now.

 

[BruceK]

not 14?

 

[BruceK]

The steering yoke came with a "protection cap" whatever exactly that is.

 

[dpb]

Reading what you have written and having another look at the video it seems that the steering arm is wobbling relative to the steering helmet shaft.
This ties up with the worn splines.
Presumably turning the steering wheel does not turn the drive?
The steering arm clamps onto the splines, maybe the clamp bolt was loose in the past or had a stripped thread from over tightening allowing it to move relative to the shaft. Maybe the clamped end is cracked or otherwise broken.
I would remove the steering arm and check for damage to the clamp area and to the splines in the clamp and to the clamp bolt.
If the arm is ok but with its splines worn away, a new arm might grip what is left of the splines on the steering yolk shaft.
If the arm is completely OK then the only alternative to a new yoke would be someway of packing the gap between the arm and the shaft (thin metal or plastic sheet wrapped around the shaft) but that would be a bodge and if going to sea maybe not a good idea as your fix might work loose. Maybe an acceptable risk on the river though.

 

[alt]

He'd love to hear that!! (not!)

When I had the steering helmet removed, there wasn't actually any real play between the helmet and the shield.

What I did notice on his boat (it's about a 1986 with AQAD41's ... I forget what DP model the outdrives are), was that between the helmet 'shaft' and the shield, there was like a double sided rubber seal... I don't see this in any diagrams, and I can't see it on my DP-G drives... any ideas? (This is outside the boat, not internally).

For what it's worth, there is no water leaking up the helmet shaft into the transom... although that could be because I packed it with grease after re-inserting).

Bad news for my friend is that part 14 isin't available anymore, from what I read in the past, the whole steering helmet is sold as 1 unit now.

 

[alt]

not 14?

Correct sorry. Edited my post

 

[volvopaul]

In the never ending project that is my friend's Sealine, we have found another issue... massive play in the steerm arm (both up /down and left/right).

Bit of history....
When we removed the out-drive some time ago, the steering helmet pretty much fell down (I thought it was supposed to be held with a bolt on the steering arm... which is there and tightened!)

When steering helmet removed, I noticed the splines on the vertical shaft of the steering helmet were seriously worn. I recommended to replace steering helmet, but the response was 'no'.

So, i'm guessing that the play in the video below is due to the worn splines on the steering helmet shaft?

Should the steering arm also be replaced? (I'm guessing yes).

From the link below, should the bushings and 'ring', items 2 / 3 / 14 also be replaced? https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7745630-44-19573B.aspx

Anything else that should be replaced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIxk34wcrI

I warned my friend to walk away from this boat, but what do I know!!

I’ve not seen one as bad as that in a while , if it's an early model 41A it’s a DPA drive that has splined shaft , the later DPE is a square. I’d say you need a helmet arm new bushes and see , I looks worm between the upper and lower bush so you may need a shield .
The earlier shield has a V ring seal the later a lip seal .

 

[Boat2016]

I’ve not seen one as bad as that in a while , if it's an early model 41A it’s a DPA drive that has splined shaft , the later DPE is a square. I’d say you need a helmet arm new bushes and see , I looks worm between the upper and lower bush so you may need a shield .
The earlier shield has a V ring seal the later a lip seal .

Would this really cause damage to the shield ? I thought that’s why they have those nylon bushes that I used to have replaced every few years or are you thinking it’s gone through the bushes ?

 

[BruceK]

If it has that much play I wouldn't think the bushes are doing much if there is much left of them at all. And then if you have tool hardened steel rubbing against aluminium its not the steel that will wear away first. More to the point new bushes will unlikely cover up any grooved wear and not give way in short order.

 

[volvopaul]

Would this really cause damage to the shield ? I thought that’s why they have those nylon bushes that I used to have replaced every few years or are you thinking it’s gone through the bushes ?

Yes , the bottom bush fits in with a lip , look like a top hat upside down so the arm has a face to twist on , the upper bush sits in the shield again with a lip , when I’ve fitted new bushes I always push the arm in between the bushes to make sure they are sat correctly, the steering fork can then be inserted from the outside .

 

[Boat2016]

Yes , the bottom bush fits in with a lip , look like a top hat upside down so the arm has a face to twist on , the upper bush sits in the shield again with a lip , when I’ve fitted new bushes I always push the arm in between the bushes to make sure they are sat correctly, the steering fork can then be inserted from the outside .

Thanks, I understand what you mean but struggle to understand how someone can allow the thing to wear to a point the shield is getting damaged, surely the thing would be letting in a serious amount of water at that point.
Their kind of neglect seems to give outdrives a bad name, sadly a lot of issues seem to be self inflicted.

 

[volvopaul]

Thanks, I understand what you mean but struggle to understand how someone can allow the thing to wear to a point the shield is getting damaged, surely the thing would be letting in a serious amount of water at that point.
Their kind of neglect seems to give outdrives a bad name, sadly a lot of issues seem to be self inflicted.

If the boat sits high in the water the water can’t get in .

 

[Boat2016]

If the boat sits high in the water the water can’t get in .

I always remember them being close to water line, I guess it would only notice on some boats then.

 

[alt]

On behalf of my friend, thanks for all the advise.

So, we took out the steering helmet / steering arm earlier.

For sure, there is wear on the splines, but there's life in them. When we put them back together on the bench and tightened up the allen bolt, it tightened right up. I can only assume the genius 'servicing' it in the past mucked up somewhere.

We are going to change the 2 bushes item 2 & 3: https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7745630-44-19573B.aspx

My query is, what the heck is part 14? It says 'Ring'. One thing to note, on these out-drives, there is some sort of a rubber seal on the OUTSIDE of the boat, between the steering helmet fork and the transom shield. Is this the 'V Seal' you mention earlier volvopaul? It's on the outside on both steering helmets, but I note that there is no such seal on my DP-G outdrives. This is hardly the 'ring' (item 14) in the diagram above? If so, I note that it's INSIDE the boat, rather than OUTSIDE.

Any ideas?? Here is a pic of the other wrecked looking seal on the other outdrive. I do note that it looks like it should be there, the bottom lip seems to fit on the steering yoke shaft nicely... but I don't see it in any diagrams? And I didn't notice any 'ring' (item 14) on the inside of the boat.

 

[alt]

OK so it appears the seal I mention above is indeed a V-Seal that volvopaul mentioned earlier. It's just weird that it doesn't show on the parts diagram? Example of a V Seal: https://www.skf.com/mena/industry-s...pstream-steel-making/cranes/v-ring-seals.html

Also, there is indeed a seal on my DP-G, it's just not as 'external' (and it's not a V Seal) or easy to see as my friends DPA. For reference, the seal on the DP-G is item 16 here: https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7744570-44-5110.aspx

On a side note, out of precaution, I think i'll be changing the bushes (14 & 15 on link above) on my DP-G's next year when I change the bellows.... shouldn't be too much of a job so long as I can loosen the set-screw on the steering arm.... oh the joys!!

 

[volvopaul]

On behalf of my friend, thanks for all the advise.

So, we took out the steering helmet / steering arm earlier.

For sure, there is wear on the splines, but there's life in them. When we put them back together on the bench and tightened up the allen bolt, it tightened right up. I can only assume the genius 'servicing' it in the past mucked up somewhere.

We are going to change the 2 bushes item 2 & 3: https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7745630-44-19573B.aspx

My query is, what the heck is part 14? It says 'Ring'. One thing to note, on these out-drives, there is some sort of a rubber seal on the OUTSIDE of the boat, between the steering helmet fork and the transom shield. Is this the 'V Seal' you mention earlier volvopaul? It's on the outside on both steering helmets, but I note that there is no such seal on my DP-G outdrives. This is hardly the 'ring' (item 14) in the diagram above? If so, I note that it's INSIDE the boat, rather than OUTSIDE.

Any ideas?? Here is a pic of the other wrecked looking seal on the other outdrive. I do note that it looks like it should be there, the bottom lip seems to fit on the steering yoke shaft nicely... but I don't see it in any diagrams? And I didn't notice any 'ring' (item 14) on the inside of the boat.

Your DPG has a lip seal with a sprung , totally different transom shield to this one .
The V ring seal isn’t 100% waterproof , make sure the helmet is fully in before you tighten the bolt .
When you order parts the bushes are different to the DPG.