Steelboats

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rotrax said:
Brent Swain said:
Brent what part of " The old clunker just aint worth it " dont you understand. Its a cheap toy.

Just so you know, the previous owner had it wedged so far up his fundimental orifice that in two years he had only 3 prospective buyers view it. I was the last and have him less than half of what he was asking. If it had been a GRP boat, it would have been twice the asking price-$40,000 NZ Dollars. I gave $8,500 NZ Dollars. I would struggle to sell it for $12,000 after doing as you suggest, and I have continuously improved it over the 5 years I have owned it.

I have a fabulous boat in the UK and a cheap steel boat in NZ. Of course I could do all of your suggestions. It would undoubtedly lower the future maintenance requirements. But, it would cost some money-not much, but some-and time. At my age, time is in short supply.

But-it is not worth it financially.

For you, no. For others, with a longer term view, well worth it. You are not the only reader on this site.
Kinda like the kid who complains the hot plate is burning his hand, but won't take his hand off the plate, and blames the hot plate for that.
Your corrosion problems are the result of your own lack of action, so stop bitching about it, and blaming the material for your own laziness.
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bbg said:
attack by you.

That is what this thread is about. You fail to realise that GRP (or wood, or ferro, anything else) could be the best material for OTHERS who want to cruise long-term and long-distance.

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No, it is not, they are just mislead to believe it is.
 
When it comes to early retirement and max free time, learning how to do all your own boat work ,and build your own gear ,is very important. Regardless of hull material, learning to do your own metal work is well worth while. You will end up with far better gear, and be able to build more, in any anchorage anywhere. Anyone who can build a metal hull, can build his own sheet blocks , anchor winch , windvane , furler ,etc, etc.
Cruising budgets die the death of a thousand cuts , piling up, no one expense seeming like much, but totaling a huge ,dream destroying number, in the end.
The difference between a $2 sheet block, and a $40 one, doesn't seem like much ,but add up that difference, over most of what goes into a boat, and you have the difference between going cruising early and young, and sticking around for many more years paying for it .
 
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Brent Swain said:
Your corrosion problems are the result of your own lack of action, so stop bitching about it, and blaming the material for your own laziness.
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But Brent-this clearly shows your fundimental problem.

I have NEVER bitched about the fairly small areas of corrosion on my steel Hartley. That is entirely down to your perception-you percieve any negative comment as an attack on steel boats, when, on this forum it has mostly been informed comment. Your attitude draws attacks, both on steel boats and you yourself.

I was aware of these when I purchased the vessel. The boat now looks pretty good now I have sorted out the rusty window apertures, a couple of holes in the cockpit and the front hatch surround. All these problems date from its build, in 1986. Done your way, it would have been fine.

It is a well equipped boat, liferaft, EPIRB, inflatable, outboard, cooker, fridge, microwave with oven and grill, shower and an electric toilet.

But, its not worth a light.

Fact.

As it is not a long term situation, I have made a decision on how I shall manage the boat while it is in my ownership.

Just as you manage the looking after and making bits for your boat. It is YOUR decision, just as looking after my boat is mine.

Rather than spending most of my time cutting, grinding and welding, I prefer hanging out with the Grandchildren.

As I said earlier, I wont be having another steel boat.

I dont see the advantages that you do, after owning both GRP and steel boats.

I shall watch with interest how you get on on the other forum you have posted on....................................
 
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bbg said:
You are wrong. You have misled yourself to believe that everyone should have the same values and priorities as you. Most people want more out of life than you.
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This is just daft. Who on earth is going to recommend ferro or wood as the best choice for livaboard cruising? Surely GRP would be the mainstream choice followed by steel for those who want the extra robustness.

Many people who have actually done some long term liveaboard cruising off the beaten track come to appreciate the benefits of steel. For the others GRP will suffice (until they hit an uncharted rock).
 
SlowlyButSurely said:
This is just daft. Who on earth is going to recommend ferro or wood as the best choice for livaboard cruising? Surely GRP would be the mainstream choice followed by steel for those who want the extra robustness.

Many people who have actually done some long term liveaboard cruising off the beaten track come to appreciate the benefits of steel. For the others GRP will suffice (until they hit an uncharted rock).
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I certainly wouldn't recommend wood or ferro, but there are undoubtedly some people for whom that would be their first choice. It doesn't mean they are right or wrong.
My point is that there is no single "right" material. Different strokes for different folks.
Brent doesn't seem to get that.
 
SlowlyButSurely said:
This is just daft. Who on earth is going to recommend ferro or wood as the best choice for livaboard cruising? Surely GRP would be the mainstream choice followed by steel for those who want the extra robustness.

Many people who have actually done some long term liveaboard cruising off the beaten track come to appreciate the benefits of steel. For the others GRP will suffice (until they hit an uncharted rock).
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Even hitting a rock isn’t usually a problem with. decent GRP boat but I expect Brent will be along soon to claim otherwise.
 
Didn't I read about a GRP yacht that left its keel wedged into some rocks west of the Silly Isles. I believe the skipper was completely unaware and the boat sailed for several more trips until the fact was discovered.

I don't suppose a concrete breakwater counts as hard enough, nor the video of the 36' GRP boat being sailed into it at hull speed counts for much either. Then there is the GRP yacht being repeatedly slammed into the stone breakwater in significant sea's until it was pulled off by a rescue boat on YT. It didn't sink, so that won't count.

I seem to remember watching the YBW team try to hole some GRP boat for a flooding piece they were doing. The methods they had to resort to, in order to punch a hole in an ostensibly flimsy GRP boat showed just how ignorant very seasoned sailors can be regarding GRP.

No boat is guaranteed immune to rocks, including steel.
 
Achosenman said:
Didn't I read about a GRP yacht that left its keel wedged into some rocks west of the Silly Isles. I believe the skipper was completely unaware and the boat sailed for several more trips until the fact was discovered.

I don't suppose a concrete breakwater counts as hard enough, nor the video of the 36' GRP boat being sailed into it at hull speed counts for much either. Then there is the GRP yacht being repeatedly slammed into the stone breakwater in significant sea's until it was pulled off by a rescue boat on YT. It didn't sink, so that won't count.

I seem to remember watching the YBW team try to hole some GRP boat for a flooding piece they were doing. The methods they had to resort to, in order to punch a hole in an ostensibly flimsy GRP boat showed just how ignorant very seasoned sailors can be regarding GRP.

No boat is guaranteed immune to rocks, including steel.
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So you've never hit an uncharted rock then!
 
Lets try and put this to bed.

No other poster has challenged my statement that ANY well found yacht, made of any material, will serve for a full time cruising liveaboard. Probably because it is a correct and factual statement, and cannot be challenged fundamentally.

Now, we come to the detail. BS insists that steel is the ONLY choice, and that GRP yachts are only fit for tying up in Marina's.

If he lived on the same planet as the rest of us and left out "only" and said "best, in my opinion" and stopped his attacks on GRP yachts, this thread would have been lucky to have got past 10 pages.

With the added benifit that he might have passed his excellent ideas on to prospective steel boat builders, owners and cruisers.
I have stated several times that most of his ideas are good when it comes to building and preparing a home built steel boat for a long and trouble free life. His decades of experience can help steel boat owners.

It is also clear that over the years he has been banned from most American boating sites. Which is why he is gracing these pages with his experiences.

His life experiences are somewhat different to most of ours and it is clear that because most who post here chose a different path he feels he is superior to those who went to work and chose not to build a cheap steel boat and live on it.

This does nothing to help his cause. This has been told to him many times on the American sites, but, like the Leopard, he cant change his spots!

Where does this go from here?

Lets wait and see.....................................
 
rotrax said:
But Brent-this clearly shows your fundimental problem.

I have NEVER bitched about the fairly small areas of corrosion on my steel Hartley. That is entirely down to your perception-you percieve any negative comment as an attack on steel boats, when, on this forum it has mostly been informed comment. Your attitude draws attacks, both on steel boats and you yourself.

I was aware of these when I purchased the vessel. The boat now looks pretty good now I have sorted out the rusty window apertures, a couple of holes in the cockpit and the front hatch surround. All these problems date from its build, in 1986. Done your way, it would have been fine.

It is a well equipped boat, liferaft, EPIRB, inflatable, outboard, cooker, fridge, microwave with oven and grill, shower and an electric toilet.

But, its not worth a light.

Fact.

As it is not a long term situation, I have made a decision on how I shall manage the boat while it is in my ownership.

Just as you manage the looking after and making bits for your boat. It is YOUR decision, just as looking after my boat is mine.

Rather than spending most of my time cutting, grinding and welding, I prefer hanging out with the Grandchildren.

As I said earlier, I wont be having another steel boat.

I dont see the advantages that you do, after owning both GRP and steel boats.

I shall watch with interest how you get on on the other forum you have posted on....................................
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Yes, it takes a lot of offshore cruising off the beaten path, to fully realize the benefits of steel.
 
Achosenman said:
Didn't I read about a GRP yacht that left its keel wedged into some rocks west of the Silly Isles. I believe the skipper was completely unaware and the boat sailed for several more trips until the fact was discovered.

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Hard to miss it ,when your ballast is gone. Who'd notice that?
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I don't suppose a concrete breakwater counts as hard enough, nor the video of the 36' GRP boat being sailed into it at hull speed counts for much either. Then there is the GRP yacht being repeatedly slammed into the stone breakwater in significant sea's until it was pulled off by a rescue boat on YT. It didn't sink, so that won't count.
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The breakwater here has its share of sunken plastic boats which didn't last long.
No pictures of the boat which was pulled off,out of the water, no indication of how much water she was taking on, nor the state of her rudder or keel. A brief encounter, with a small, light , empty boat?
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I seem to remember watching the YBW team try to hole some GRP boat for a flooding piece they were doing. The methods they had to resort to, in order to punch a hole in an ostensibly flimsy GRP boat showed just how ignorant very seasoned sailors can be regarding GRP.

No boat is guaranteed immune to rocks, including steel.
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Borrow or rent a steel pick axe, and use it on a plastic hull. Now make up a fibreglass pick axe and use it on steel hull, or a piece of 3/16th steel plate. No boat is immune to rocks, but steel is far, far closer to immune than plastic, as the above test will show .
 
rotrax said:
Lets try and put this to bed.

No other poster has challenged my statement that ANY well found yacht, made of any material, will serve for a full time cruising liveaboard. Probably because it is a correct and factual statement, and cannot be challenged fundamentally.
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Nor have I . Yet another straw man argument. I have just stated that steel has some serious advantages, which you have distorted into the above straw man argument.
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Now, we come to the detail. BS insists that steel is the ONLY choice, and that GRP yachts are only fit for tying up in Marina's.
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Your words, not mine .Yet another straw man argument, distorted yet again . GRP boats are fine, steel is much better ,for full time, off the beaten path use affordable home building, the one off, etc etc.. Now watch him distort this one, so he will have something to argue against.
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If he lived on the same planet as the rest of us and left out "only" and said "best, in my opinion" and stopped his attacks on GRP yachts, this thread would have been lucky to have got past 10 pages.

With the added benifit that he might have passed his excellent ideas on to prospective steel boat builders, owners and cruisers.
I have stated several times that most of his ideas are good when it comes to building and preparing a home built steel boat for a long and trouble free life. His decades of experience can help steel boat owners.

It is also clear that over the years he has been banned from most American boating sites. Which is why he is gracing these pages with his experiences.
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Sites which get their revenue from those selling $10 K watermakers , who don't want people to know how to build one for less than 1/10th that cost, ditto furlers , anchor winches , windvanes ,etc etc.
Sites where they claim plastic thru hulls are stronger than stainless, high aspect twin keels, with a foot of attachment to a plastic hull, are stronger than steel ones, with 8 feet of welded attachment to the hull, etc etc, bubbles of idiocy . That is as dense as saying plastic is stronger than steel!
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His life experiences are somewhat different to most of ours and it is clear that because most who post here chose a different path he feels he is superior to those who went to work and chose not to build a cheap steel boat and live on it.
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Your words, not mine. Another straw man argument. I have just offered an alternative.

This does nothing to help his cause. This has been told to him many times on the American sites, but, like the Leopard, he cant change his spots!

Where does this go from here?

Lets wait and see.....................................
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Brent Swain said:
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Borrow or rent a steel pick axe, and use it on a plastic hull. Now make up a fibreglass pick axe and use it on steel hull, or a piece of 3/16th steel plate. No boat is immune to rocks, but steel is far, far closer to immune than plastic, as the above test will show .
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That’s not a fair test.

How about steel pick axe on GRP followed by steel pick axe on steel?

GRP owners will be pleasantly surprised by just how difficult it is to puncture a GRP hull.

Steel boat owners of mature craft will be worried about where the pick lands.
 
There's a thread just started an hour ago on PBO about a boat sinking after hitting a rock. I don't know what material she was made of, but I can guess.
 
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