Steelboats

[PeteCooper]

I believe the only thing which would be damaged on my boat would be a bent bow pulpit, easily repaired in an hour, with my onboard welder. Maybe not even that, as it would collide with a standard, thin walled ""Yotti tinfoil"" one, as on most plastic boats.
The point is not the derby, it is demonstrating how little real confidence critics have in the truth of their postings.

As with so many of your response you are completely missing the point. Most people try to avoid any damage on their boat whether minor or not.

Yet again you resort to insulting behaviour with your comment 'Yotti tinfoil' implying that any body with a grp yacht is wrong.

if you had read my comment earlier the only time I have hit another boat was when my grp bow hit the steel pushpit on another yacht. I never found a mark on my boat but the pushpit was destroyed.

 

[Brent Swain]

We got stuck on the stability calcs but this should be easier. The principle of dynamic similitude is indeed useful here, as is the principle of Archimedes. A 36’ GRP boat is a similar shape to yours, so should displace the same quantity of water and lower itself a similar distance following the addition of the same load. No?

Turning to Archimedes; your 36’ boat will have a LWL of around 31’ or 9.5m? Its average waterline beam will be around 5’ 6” or thereabouts, i.e. 1.65m? So its waterline cross section will be something like 15.7 square meters (9.5m x 1.65m).

11,500lbs is 5.2 tonnes, which Archimedes tells us should push the vessel down 33cm (5.2/15.7), i.e. around 13”.

Now I understand hull shape will reduce that a bit, but to just 1” at the waterline?

1,250 lbs per inch according to the graph in Skene's Elements of Yacht design .Makes well over 6,000 lbs for 6 inches on a 36 footer.

 

[Brent Swain]

As with so many of your response you are completely missing the point. Most people try to avoid any damage on their boat whether minor or not.

Yet again you resort to insulting behaviour with your comment 'Yotti tinfoil' implying that any body with a grp yacht is wrong.

if you had read my comment earlier the only time I have hit another boat was when my grp bow hit the steel pushpit on another yacht. I never found a mark on my boat but the pushpit was destroyed.

You bent a thin walled pushpit on a stock boat, and that makes your hull strong?

 

[Brent Swain]

11,500lbs is 5.2 tonnes,
That number was a typo, which my critics claim to have never done.
1250 lbs per inch, now corrected. Still, over 6 inches means well over 6,000 lbs.

 

[Brent Swain]

As with so many of your response you are completely missing the point. Most people try to avoid any damage on their boat whether minor or not.

Yet again you resort to insulting behaviour with your comment 'Yotti tinfoil' implying that any body with a grp yacht is wrong.

if you had read my comment earlier the only time I have hit another boat was when my grp bow hit the steel pushpit on another yacht. I never found a mark on my boat but the pushpit was destroyed.

No, I am sugesting that the thin wall stuff commonly uised on stock boats is not as good as sch 40 SS pipe.
The rest of your post is just another made up, straw man arguement.

 

[Brent Swain]

I think his posts have effectively shattered what little credibility he may have retained in some quarters.

The man is simply unable to recognise facts or reality. He is the Canadian sailing equivalent of “ the mad cat lady”
TBH the “ah but, no but, yeah but” floundering defence of the untenable position he has got himself into is getting uncomfortable to watch. He has demonstrated he knows nothing about GRP and even less about logic and deductive reasoning.

My ways of doing things has let me semi retire in my mid 20s ', while my critics strive for freedom 55, or later. And you say I have it all wrong?
So do tell me ,how many of YOUR steel boat designs have cruised a combined over 350,00 miles with no serious problems. How many dozen have YOU put together. At what age did YOU semi retire? How many decades have YOU lived aboard your steel boats, and for how many decades have YOU maintained them? How many money saving ideas have YOU posted? How many ideas YOU have posted have reduced cost and time by over 90%?

 

[Brent Swain]

Another non scientific pronouncement from Mr Empirical.

Is he squirming now he has seen GRP being given grief? Suggesting that because it was a race boat without 6,000 lbs of crap inside it survived?

Get a life Brent-GRP as used in boats is very unlikely to " Shatter ". It can be pierced, it can be dented in the act of being pierced. It can separate at joints. But shattering-that is about the last thing it is likely to do.

I actually know one of the guy's who was on board at the time.

Very embarrassed about it he was too.....................................................

Your theory didnt work out so well for the Sleavin family ,nor for Hal Roth, when he blew aground near Cape Horn, an older Spencer 35, far more heavily built than todays boats', seriously shatterd in critical places , nor the many who went aground at Cabo in 82, nor the kid whos boat was sunk by a whale recently in Mexico , leaving him in a dinghy at night, nor the guy whos engine came loose in another Spencer 35, off the great barier reef ,punching a hole in his hull, sinking it quickly, or the guy off Costa Rica who hit a container, sinking his boat quickly, or Nigel Calder ,who punched a hole in hitting a sand bar in mild conditions, the list goes on and on..

Yes GRP is far stronger than wood but its strength is grossly overestimated, when you say they ""cant be holed."" That kind of disinformation is dangerous, false advertising. Killed off most of the Sleavin family .

Your suggestion that adding 6,000 lbs of dead weight inertia would have no effect, is ludicrous.

I'm now enjoying the ""Great Canadian snow removal ""plan . Stay in Mexico until it melts . For you guys, I guess it is Spain. Ünless you are tied down by boat payments, moorage payments, etc , from not following my advice. I guess you wont be robbing my sun, here in Mexico.

 

[PeteCooper]

The rest of your post is just another made up, straw man arguement.

So you bang on about anecdotal evidence being better than everything else but when I say something that I can guarantee is true(I do not tell lies) you dismiss as being made up.
Or do you dismiss it because it is contrary to your tunnel vision view of things?

When you are ready perhaps you can apologise for calling me a liar?

 

[Achosenman]

My ways of doing things has let me semi retire in my mid 20s ', while my critics strive for freedom 55, or later. And you say I have it all wrong?
So do tell me ,how many of YOUR steel boat designs have cruised a combined over 350,00 miles with no serious problems. How many dozen have YOU put together. At what age did YOU semi retire? How many decades have YOU lived aboard your steel boats, and for how many decades have YOU maintained them? How many money saving ideas have YOU posted? How many ideas YOU have posted have reduced cost and time by over 90%?

I don't want, need nor like steel boats for my sailing. If I intended to venture way down south or way up north I'd probably look at Ovni. I've been told steel is too much hassle from people I respect and who's judgement I trust. From your offerings, they can be pig ugly to boot.

How many millions did you have in your account when you retired? Don't worry you needn't answer, you had diddly squat. What you call retirement we call being "on the dole"
Your inability to find gainful employment is a similar situation many feckless dreamers have found themselves in. I will admit, not many wear it as a badge of honour, so kudos.

You may know a bit about steel boats, (even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut) but you demonstrate zero knowledge about modern GRP materials, strengths, weaknesses and uses. The old inch thick polyester resin with simple glass fibre matting is nothing like the choices available and in use by designers today. But that doesn't stop you pontificating ad nauseam about a subject you have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance in, apart from the fact that it outsells your creations by a factor of many thousands to one.

I have a test for you. Instead of a demolition derby, how about we get a tank constructed of GRP to boat building standards. (Modern) We then fill it with water, you jump in and hold your breath. We screw the lid down and you break out of the fragile plastic by shattering it from inside in-time to prevent yourself from drowning...I'd pay to see that.

 

[rotrax]

Your theory didnt work out so well for the Sleavin family ,nor for Hal Roth, when he blew aground near Cape Horn, an older Spencer 35, far more heavily built than todays boats', seriously shatterd in critical places , nor the many who went aground at Cabo in 82, nor the kid whos boat was sunk by a whale recently in Mexico , leaving him in a dinghy at night, nor the guy whos engine came loose in another Spencer 35, off the great barier reef ,punching a hole in his hull, sinking it quickly, or the guy off Costa Rica who hit a container, sinking his boat quickly, or Nigel Calder ,who punched a hole in hitting a sand bar in mild conditions, the list goes on and on..

Yes GRP is far stronger than wood but its strength is grossly overestimated, when you say they ""cant be holed."" That kind of disinformation is dangerous, false advertising. Killed off most of the Sleavin family .

Your suggestion that adding 6,000 lbs of dead weight inertia would have no effect, is ludicrous.

I'm now enjoying the ""Great Canadian snow removal ""plan . Stay in Mexico until it melts . For you guys, I guess it is Spain. Ünless you are tied down by boat payments, moorage payments, etc , from not following my advice. I guess you wont be robbing my sun, here in Mexico.

Reading the above shows that you have no idea about debate in a rational manner. You clearly state " You say they cant be holed " Well, Brent, my old mate, I actually said " It can be pierced, it can be dented in the act of being pierced "

AFAIK, if you pierce something, it makes a hole.

I saw a steel boat in Evans Bay Marina here in Wellington today. It has a large hole in the foredeck. The hole is serious corrosion, due I suspect to dissimilar metals plus rainwater and seawater making a galvanic cell.

The anchor windlass is about to fall through it.............................................

The list goes on and on!

 

[rotrax]

My ways of doing things has let me semi retire in my mid 20s ', while my critics strive for freedom 55, or later. And you say I have it all wrong?
So do tell me ,how many of YOUR steel boat designs have cruised a combined over 350,00 miles with no serious problems. How many dozen have YOU put together. At what age did YOU semi retire? How many decades have YOU lived aboard your steel boats, and for how many decades have YOU maintained them? How many money saving ideas have YOU posted? How many ideas YOU have posted have reduced cost and time by over 90%?

Pray enlighten us as to how you are so well informed about what your critics strive for?

I certainly dont wish to have lived on a steel boat for decades.

I would have missed out on wonderful experiences shoreside, being married and bringing up children and now experiencing their children.

A working life, doing things I enjoyed, owning property and lots of racing motorbikes and traveling the world to race them has given me what I wanted.

You fall into the trap of assuming others want what YOU have achieved.

Well, Brent, some might, but most wont.

So stop banging on about how others are jealous of your boat and lifestyle, because most posters on here are not jealous. It is all in your mind.

 

[Brent Swain]

Reading the above shows that you have no idea about debate in a rational manner. You clearly state " You say they cant be holed " Well, Brent, my old mate, I actually said " It can be pierced, it can be dented in the act of being pierced "

AFAIK, if you pierce something, it makes a hole.

I saw a steel boat in Evans Bay Marina here in Wellington today. It has a large hole in the foredeck. The hole is serious corrosion, due I suspect to dissimilar metals plus rainwater and seawater making a galvanic cell.

The anchor windlass is about to fall through it.............................................

The list goes on and on!

Yes, all boats need maintenance .I have given enough info on how to to avoid that situation completely.
Friends with plastic boats have rottted out cores, problems with hull deck joints ,bulkheads coming away from hulls, chainplates on rotten bulkheads, thru hull problems ,deck leaks, osmosis, rotten mast suports, the list goes on and on.

 

[Brent Swain]

Pray enlighten us as to how you are so well informed about what your critics strive for?

I certainly dont wish to have lived on a steel boat for decades.

I would have missed out on wonderful experiences shoreside, being married and bringing up children and now experiencing their children.

A working life, doing things I enjoyed, owning property and lots of racing motorbikes and traveling the world to race them has given me what I wanted.

You fall into the trap of assuming others want what YOU have achieved.

Well, Brent, some might, but most wont.

So stop banging on about how others are jealous of your boat and lifestyle, because most posters on here are not jealous. It is all in your mind.

You better say that, if your wife reads it, or your boss! You have their permission, and demand, to say that.
I never had any interest in the things you list, certainly not in helping resolve the ""world people shortage"" ( the main cause of all environmental problems).
Friends have told me, ""Ï'd love to be doing what you are doing, but I can't, because I have a wife.

 

[Brent Swain]

I don't want, need nor like steel boats for my sailing. If I intended to venture way down south or way up north I'd probably look at Ovni. I've been told steel is too much hassle from people I respect and who's judgement I trust. From your offerings, they can be pig ugly to boot.

How many millions did you have in your account when you retired? Don't worry you needn't answer, you had diddly squat. What you call retirement we call being "on the dole"
Your inability to find gainful employment is a similar situation many feckless dreamers have found themselves in. I will admit, not many wear it as a badge of honour, so kudos.

You may know a bit about steel boats, (even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut) but you demonstrate zero knowledge about modern GRP materials, strengths, weaknesses and uses. The old inch thick polyester resin with simple glass fibre matting is nothing like the choices available and in use by designers today. But that doesn't stop you pontificating ad nauseam about a subject you have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance in, apart from the fact that it outsells your creations by a factor of many thousands to one.

I have a test for you. Instead of a demolition derby, how about we get a tank constructed of GRP to boat building standards. (Modern) We then fill it with water, you jump in and hold your breath. We screw the lid down and you break out of the fragile plastic by shattering it from inside in-time to prevent yourself from drowning...I'd pay to see that.

I had no problem in finding all the work I needed (my needs being small) and have not been on the dole since 1972.
Ones personal environmental foot print is directly porportioante to how much money they go thru.

 

[co256]

Can you post a picture of your $50 windvane?

 

[rotrax]

Yes, all boats need maintenance .I have given enough info on how to to avoid that situation completely.
Friends with plastic boats have rottted out cores, problems with hull deck joints ,bulkheads coming away from hulls, chainplates on rotten bulkheads, thru hull problems ,deck leaks, osmosis, rotten mast suports, the list goes on and on.

Why dont we see these problems in the magnitude you encounter on this side of the pond Brent? Surprising when we have many, many more boats in use than BC.

I am not suggesting for a moment they cant and dont happen, but you know loads of friends suffering these problems, every bay in BC is littered with holed GRP boats, all GRP boats in BC are only fit for " Marina Queens "

Its different in the UK and Europe. The ones in trouble are made from a dense, heavy metal which is severely prone to corrosion near seawater.

Most of the boats suffering expensive or terminal problems are not made of wood, aluminium or GRP over here.

I am an active member of 2 yacht/boat clubs, one in the UK, one in NZ. Total membership of boat owners around 300. IIRC-in the last two years, apart from improvements and routine maintenance:-

One GibSea had a loose P bracket, one knocked a bit off his rudder sailing a 6 foot draught boat in 4 feet of water in Wellington Harbour trying an expensive short cut during an evening race, one had a shroud fail-it was 30 years old, so he changed the lot-one had a serious water leak from a hatch, again a 40 year old Houdini which required re-glazing by a specialist. Another GRP owner had a water leak from the toerail. Lifting and re-bedding the through deck stantion bases soon sorted that.

No one currently has serious osmosis, but some have had treatment in the past, no one has a rotted core, or a problem with through hulls or mast supports.

So, that is my experience through knowing the gossip around 300 ish mostly GRP vessels in two clubs. Lets double the number of serious faults, as I might not be aware of some, and we get ten.

Just with your friends you list eight.

I honestly think you are bullshitting........................................

 

[rotrax]

You better say that, if your wife reads it, or your boss! You have their permission, and demand, to say that.
I never had any interest in the things you list, certainly not in helping resolve the ""world people shortage"" ( the main cause of all environmental problems).
Friends have told me, ""Ï'd love to be doing what you are doing, but I can't, because I have a wife.

Well, that just shows how much you know about how others go about their lives Brent. Probably because normal life is of little interest to you.

My wife became a good motorbike racer in her own right-even after the children came along she re-started her career. She is keener than I to get out on either of our boats, where she is I/C steering for berthing and mooring/anchoring.

Your views on the worlds overpopulation have no place here, even though I agree with you. Unfortunately, unilateral action like yours is meaningless in the world we live in.

I have the right sort of wife. Not all men are so fortunate. She is a petrol head, loves sailing and travel.

After 51 years, I recon she is a keeper!

 

[dom]

Well, well, well:

Shocking, almost unwatchable, then .................. :encouragement:
https://youtu.be/euARI7PkOiA

 

[rotrax]

Must have been a steel boat.

NO-wait a minute-its GRP!

 

[Brent Swain]

Can you post a picture of your $50 windvane?

Will do, if it can be done,when I get back home.I have it on my other computer.