Brent Swain
N/A
The point made is no one has the confidence to try it.
Steelboats
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The point made is no one has the confidence to try it.
PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
You actually believe that people should take you on in a demolition derby? As I said in a demolition derby all contestants are damaged. Why would any sane person want that?
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Even if I was sailing a steel boat I wouldn’t do it.
It’s a stupid suggestion.
It must be a bit difficult for Brent to keep making his phantasmagorical claims about the superiority of steel with so many people citing examples of GRP boats happily surviving collisions.
The truth is that surviving collision with rock, reef or ship etc is not the only measure of whether a boat is fit for purpose but it seems to be the completely dominant one in his arguments.
It’s a stupid suggestion.
It must be a bit difficult for Brent to keep making his phantasmagorical claims about the superiority of steel with so many people citing examples of GRP boats happily surviving collisions.
The truth is that surviving collision with rock, reef or ship etc is not the only measure of whether a boat is fit for purpose but it seems to be the completely dominant one in his arguments.
dom
Well-Known Member
Some tests do exist; for example this fibreglass boat remained afloat after a gas explosion:
https://youtu.be/Yxm3uMy6MPI
My suspicion is that a steel vessel would be ripped open like a sardine can and sunk, but a comprtive test would confirm or deny?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Who on earth would want to get involved? It is not like it is a scientific test. So just another one of your fantisies, so you can quote it as more 'proof' of your ideas. You do have good ones on the corrosion preventions, but they are only of use to a very few who want to build steel yachts. Not to mention, that your so called 'origami' method is limited to certain lengths.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
And shapes...However inconvenient truths get ignored or shouted down in exactly the way that he accuses anyone who tries to take a more balanced view about the pro's and con's of steel.
PS: For the record, I think steel hulled boats can be strong and excellent blue water craft. However they are definitely not a panacea and have faults that are difficult to cope with (and faults that are sometimes insurmountable.)
Brent Swain
N/A
What ""difficult, or insurmountable"" faults are those?
Brent Swain
N/A
For the average cruiser, there is no point in lengths over 40 feet, so who cares? I certainly have no interest in hanging the ""oversized boat"" millstone around anyone''s neck.
Bigger boats can have additional framing added after pulling the hull together, with a huge saving in time and expense. A freind did that with a 60 footer, no problems. That was in the 80s, and she still sails.
Brent Swain
N/A
When a given shape has the track record of good passage times, aesthetics and ease of building, why would you want to do it the hard way, when there is no justfication for doing so?
A friend built a round stern Brewer design. Cost him $8K to have the stern plates rolled. Took a couple of 45 gallon drums of filler to fair her. Took him 2 years to get the hull together , a job I have done in 2 days. With his hull together, he bet a friend I was buiding a 36 for, who would get in the water first . We had just got the first plate delivered. That was February . We launched that April, and went for our first sail in May. He headed south for Mexico that fall.
So why bother with much harder to build shapes? For what benefit?
Seems a lot of trouble, time, and expense to go to for a slight change in shape that is irrelevant in the real world.That is what changes a 6 month project into a ten year one, for no benefit.
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Brent Swain
N/A
With 1/8th inch deck plate and 3/16th hull plate, which do you think would give?
A lady had that experience in Comox. Came home after dark, and used a bic lighter to find the keyhole.Boom !It bulged the much thinner deck and cabin, but no dammage to the much thicker hull, as is the case in my boats, and the one in the video.
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Brent Swain
N/A
Along with over 350,00 miles of trouble free ocean cruising, with excellent passage times, zero deck leaks of any kind, zero thru hull problems of any kind, handrails you can vang a main to, or tie a staysail sheet to, hatches as watertight as a lid on a pressure cooker, mooring bits that never pull out,a windvane for under $50, anchor winch for under $75, in new custom boats ,for a fraction the cost of a new, custom plastic boat. The list goes on.
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Brent Swain
N/A
I believe the only thing which would be damaged on my boat would be a bent bow pulpit, easily repaired in an hour, with my onboard welder. Maybe not even that, as it would collide with a standard, thin walled ""Yotti tinfoil"" one, as on most plastic boats.
The point is not the derby, it is demonstrating how little real confidence critics have in the truth of their postings.
Brent Swain
N/A
Great to see that empty weekend boats can survive that. Different story with a 36 footer with 6,000 lbs of gear and personal effects aboard .
My 36 takes 1,250 lbs to put her down an inch. Some have risen 6 inches when the owner moved all his stuff off. That is dead weight ,contributing nothing to strength, but greatly to inertia. That kind of dead weight in this boat would have caused her to shatter, and sink.
Sleavins and others found that out, the hard way.
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Brent Swain
N/A
No one said "Certain death."" You are making up another ""straw man"" arguement, which no one else is making , so you can claim victory.
Plastic can survive a lot of abuse if done well ( rarely done, and very expensive).Steel just has much better odds.
Yes, tiny boats are much tougher for their size ( Law of mechanical similitude).
Brent Swain
N/A
The South BC coast is littered with plastic hulls with big holes in them.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Another non scientific pronouncement from Mr Empirical.
Is he squirming now he has seen GRP being given grief? Suggesting that because it was a race boat without 6,000 lbs of crap inside it survived?
Get a life Brent-GRP as used in boats is very unlikely to " Shatter ". It can be pierced, it can be dented in the act of being pierced. It can separate at joints. But shattering-that is about the last thing it is likely to do.
I actually know one of the guy's who was on board at the time.
Very embarrassed about it he was too.....................................................
Achosenman
Well-Known Member
I think his posts have effectively shattered what little credibility he may have retained in some quarters.
The man is simply unable to recognise facts or reality. He is the Canadian sailing equivalent of “ the mad cat lady”
TBH the “ah but, no but, yeah but” floundering defence of the untenable position he has got himself into is getting uncomfortable to watch. He has demonstrated he knows nothing about GRP and even less about logic and deductive reasoning.
The man is simply unable to recognise facts or reality. He is the Canadian sailing equivalent of “ the mad cat lady”
TBH the “ah but, no but, yeah but” floundering defence of the untenable position he has got himself into is getting uncomfortable to watch. He has demonstrated he knows nothing about GRP and even less about logic and deductive reasoning.
dom
Well-Known Member
We got stuck on the stability calcs but this should be easier. The principle of dynamic similitude is indeed useful here, as is the principle of Archimedes. A 36’ GRP boat is a similar shape to yours, so should displace the same quantity of water and lower itself a similar distance following the addition of the same load. No?
Turning to Archimedes; your 36’ boat will have a LWL of around 31’ or 9.5m? Its average waterline beam will be around 5’ 6” or thereabouts, i.e. 1.65m? So its waterline cross section will be something like 15.7 square meters (9.5m x 1.65m).
11,500lbs is 5.2 tonnes, which Archimedes tells us should push the vessel down 33cm (5.2/15.7), i.e. around 13”.
Now I understand hull shape will reduce that a bit, but to just 1” at the waterline?
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Dom
Calcs are wrong
You forgot that he is siting on a reef:ambivalence:
Calcs are wrong
You forgot that he is siting on a reef:ambivalence:
rotrax
Well-Known Member
NO,NO,NO- You must be wrong! Like all the other boat designers who use calculations to ensure their boats are safe.
Brent told us all his boat only lifts one inch when he takes 11,500 lbs out of her, and as we know, he is always right.........................
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