Steelboats

[Brent Swain]

That is what I have been doing. Works only if your post is at the end of the whole quote ,but not if I want to insert it at each individual comment. That is why I have been using the lines to delineate.
There is a way to separate it with blue, for the post you are replying to. I have seen it done , but havent figured out how, yet.
Any ideas anyone?

 

[Brent Swain]

The bit I liked, was 'his moral obligation' to save lives by promoting his ideas. Yeh...

Saving cruisers from blindly stumbling into the Sleavin family experience, by following the disinformation advice of plastic boat salesmen, on steel boat strength and safety.

 

[Brent Swain]

Most of which was about rust proofing some of it has contradicted itself some maybe useful, some like "Using stainless steel fitting from a building supplier fo through the hull" as just being a bit to cheap skate.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?498670-Steelboats/page7#9IqIYuXhJ76MXizz.99

The assumption being that "The more expensive things are, the beter they are, automatically, a belief wel exploited by used car salesmen everywhere ".If you really belive that, then you could double the quality of the ss pipe nipple by asking the source to double the price! I'm sure he would be happy to, to impove its quality greatly, maybe even triple it for 3 times the quality.
So do tell us of your" Ëxpensive skate "solution which can go 40 years with zero thru hull problems, and is stronger and more waterproof than a welded in Stainless sch 40 half pipe nipple.

 

[capnsensible]

Hiya Brent you old blagger, seen some right steely mingers here in the Cape Verdes. Hope you are well.

 

[rotrax]

Hiya Brent you old blagger, seen some right steely mingers here in the Cape Verdes. Hope you are well.

The verb " Minger " might not be in common usage in Comox, BC, captainsensible-perhaps you could use a more common verb so Brent knows exactly what you mean...…………….

I thought Brent, that I had made the situation clear regarding the economic and physical situation re our Hartley 32 many, many posts ago. When it was newly built, it was a fine vessel. But, like your first efforts, it was not built with the experience you now have in regard to long term durability.

Most steel boats share this situation. Which is why, for non full time liveaboards, they are a nightmare to keep looking good and corrosion free. Adding your excellent ideas is not practical AFTER initial build due to the low retained value of steel boats. Please don't take that comment as an attack on steel boats-it is a well known fact, not an attack.

Now, 32 years later, it is a bit of an old clunker. An old clunker which is being maintained and improved, but still an old clunker.

 

[newtothis]

The verb " Minger " might not be in common usage in Comox, BC, captainsensible-perhaps you could use a more common verb so Brent knows exactly what you mean...……….

For the sake of accuracy, minger is a noun, not a verb.

 

[rotrax]

For the sake of accuracy, minger is a noun, not a verb.

You are, of course, quite right. I have just given myself a severe bollocking.

 

[newtothis]

You are, of course, quite right. I have just given myself a severe bollocking.

Quite; and an appropriate verb to use as well.?

 

[myquest]

For the sake of accuracy, minger is a noun, not a verb.

For the sake of accuracy, surely "steely" is the noun, making "minger" an adjective !

 

[rotrax]

Now we are getting to the stage where I can run the old Newfoundland Cod cheek delicacy joke past you lot.

The local delicacy, made from the particularly sweet meat from the inside of a large cods cheeks is called Scrod.

An American sailor and gourmet sailed into a Newfie harbour where it was said first class Scrod could be found.

The Harbourmaster was an ex Harvard University English professor. After paying his dues, the sailor asked where he could get Scrod.

The Harbourmaster replied " Try big Nellies down the dock. This is the first time I have heard it described in the past pluperfect! "

 

[DownWest]

Now we are getting to the stage where I can run the old Newfoundland Cod cheek delicacy joke past you lot.

The local delicacy, made from the particularly sweet meat from the inside of a large cods cheeks is called Scrod.

An American sailor and gourmet sailed into a Newfie harbour where it was said first class Scrod could be found.

The Harbourmaster was an ex Harvard University English professor. After paying his dues, the sailor asked where he could get Scrod.

The Harbourmaster replied " Try big Nellies down the dock. This is the first time I have heard it described in the past pluperfect! "

Exactly what this thread needs!

 

[rotrax]

Saving cruisers from blindly stumbling into the Sleavin family experience, by following the disinformation advice of plastic boat salesmen, on steel boat strength and safety.

So, Brent, which particular salesmen are these?
First Mate and I have purchased 5 used vessels in the last 17 years, 4 GRP, 1steel. 2 were from private ads, the other 3 through brokers. We did not go into the brokers and say " We wanna buy a boat ", we knew EXACTLY what we could afford and exactly what we wanted. The brokers, in all cases, offered us options within the budget, but these were discounted as not ticking enough or the right boxes. We ended up with what we had narrowed down ourselves as the best vessel for our needs. No broker or salesman offered us advice on the strength, safety or durability of any yacht before purchase, except to point out they were all RCD cat A. No broker gave any negative feedback on build material, design or structural integrity.

That's not their job. Their job is to present a for sale boat to a potential customer on behalf of the owner and to deal with the paperwork and transfer the money to and from the client A/C.

Just looked up as much as I can find about the Sleavin family, very tragic end to their dream.

All I can find about the choice of boat-or its build material-is that " They found a good strong 47 foot boat that weighed 20 tons."

As they were run down by a cargo ship, what makes you certain that a steel yacht would have fared any better?

Did the Sleavin family blindly stumble into boat ownership, led down the wrong path by unscrupulous salesmen?

I don't think so, Brent. I think they were happy with their choice of vessel, but unlucky in being run down by a cargo ship. If they were not keeping a good watch, it was self inflicted. If they WERE keeping a watch, I believe they would have seen the cargo ship earlier than the survivors report says, and perhaps avoided it or made contact by VHF.

It is not my experience to have "a huge ship appear from nowhere" and I regularly sail in the busiest shipping lanes in the world, mostly at night. Even in big seas-3-4 metre swell, large vessels can be seen at five miles except in heavy rain or fog. Although the conditions were heavy, visibility appears not to have been an issue.

A 25 year old tragedy, and a tragedy that you should not be using to suggest a steel boat might have survived.

Your post makes little sense-why would a GRP boat salesman comment on the strength and safety of a steel boat? They might exaggerate the obvious benefits of GRP over steel, you know, the ability to make more effective and more pleasing shapes, the lack of corrosion, the ease of cleaning etc, but why would they say anything about a product they did not sell and were not selling?

Perhaps in Comox, BC, yachtbrokers work differently.

 

[NormanS]

:sleeping::sleeping: I think I'll click on the "unsubscribe" button.

 

[Brent Swain]

I just posted the following on the origamiboats thread.

I once went to a testing facility in San Francisco, with a friend who wanted cheap Chinese shackles tested.

Where did they break?

On some, the pin bent, and the threaded end pulled out. I guess that is why the industrial ones have much thicker pins than the shackle body.

On some, the ends around the pins broke. On industrial ones, that part has a lot thicker metal around the pins.

I have never seen these features on any stainless shackles, ever. Amazingly , cheap 5/16th shackles broke at 15,000 lbs.

 

[Brent Swain]

The verb " Minger " might not be in common usage in Comox, BC, captainsensible-perhaps you could use a more common verb so Brent knows exactly what you mean...…………….

I thought Brent, that I had made the situation clear regarding the economic and physical situation re our Hartley 32 many, many posts ago. When it was newly built, it was a fine vessel. But, like your first efforts, it was not built with the experience you now have in regard to long term durability.

Most steel boats share this situation. Which is why, for non full time liveaboards, they are a nightmare to keep looking good and corrosion free. Adding your excellent ideas is not practical AFTER initial build due to the low retained value of steel boats. Please don't take that comment as an attack on steel boats-it is a well known fact, not an attack.

Now, 32 years later, it is a bit of an old clunker. An old clunker which is being maintained and improved, but still an old clunker.

My methods are really quite simple. Simplify! Elimininate steel nooks and crannies. If you can''t, then make them removeable ,or in stainless ,or aluminium, or both.
A friend hada 36 ft steel Endurance, which had maintenance problems. I suggested he zip cut the steel dorade boxes ,and lots of other problems areas off with an angle grinder, and replace them with stainless removeable ones. He cut them off, and said it drastically reduced his maintenance.
Another friend has steel cockpit boxes and steel hatches over them. They should all be cut out and replaced with stainless or aluminium. Some seem to believe that the more complicated you make things, the more you improve them. The truth is the exact opposite when it comes to low maintenance steel boats .

Fancy wood work belongs below deck, only!

Almost all paint problems are due to inadequate cleaning before painting, and inadequate thickness of epoxy. That nicley primed and blasted steel youi have been walking over ,needs further thorough cleaning with TSP ,then vinegar, then water ,before epoxy. Ditto all the seams, with all that brown welding smoke on them, for 6 inches back from the weld.

 

[Brent Swain]

As they were run down by a cargo ship, what makes you certain that a steel yacht would have fared any better?

The Gringo was also T boned by a full speed cargo ship, and sufferd no leaks, as have other steel boats, as a result ,proving the Sleavins a would have had the same result, had their boat been steel.

The constant jeering of plastic promoters against steel misleads many to believe it is their only option, sometimes fatally .

 

[john_morris_uk]

As they were run down by a cargo ship, what makes you certain that a steel yacht would have fared any better?

The Gringo was also T boned by a full speed cargo ship, and sufferd no leaks, as have other steel boats, as a result ,proving the Sleavins a would have had the same result, had their boat been steel.
The constant jeering of plastic promoters against steel misleads many to believe it is their only option, sometimes fatally .

I’m with you all the way until you say ‘...proving the Sleavins would have the same result...’

It proves nothing. It’s anecdotal evidence and no more.

Also you keep harping on about two incidents. Two incidents prove nothing at all. It certainly doesn’t prove plastic disintegrates on impact. Mostly (99.9% of the time?) it doesn’t but that’s inconvenient for you.

 

[Brent Swain]

When a ship T bones a steel boat,' and it doent even hole, that PROVES CONCLUSIVELY that a steel ship hitting a steel boat of a given size and thickness, DOESN"T hole', period, especially when it has happened many times!
Calling reality ""Anecdote"is a way of denying reality, by those who dont want to face it.

 

[DownWest]

As they were run down by a cargo ship, what makes you certain that a steel yacht would have fared any better?

The constant jeering of plastic promoters against steel misleads many to believe it is their only option, sometimes fatally .

Brent, you have some good ideas and experience in steel boat building. But you are completely off the wall in your statements, like the above. Nobody on here has jeered about steel or promoted plastic (your derogatory word for GRP) beyond it corrodes less and is the material of choice for most sailors.

Saying that the Sleavins would have survived because Gringo did is an assumption, not proof. Do we have any confirmation about the 'full speed' bit of the Gringo collision? I doubt it was. A GRP boat was T boned in Southampton Water by a large cargo ship. It lost it's rig, but otherwise was not damaged much. That obviously 'proves' by your standards, that GRP is as strong as steel. We know it is not, so we don't use such examples to prove anything.

It does seem that in the PNW, you do have a very unscrupulous bunch of salespeople that don't appear to exist elswhere.

Edit: I was cooking, so sent it a bit late, after John's post

 

[DownWest]

Oh, as more proof, a close friend was run down by a large cargo vessel in the Atlantic. Luckily it was a glancing blow and while he lost parts of his rig and suffered hull damage, it did not sink the boat. Due to the worsening weather (gale forcast), he elected to be taken off, by another cargo boat. The one that hit him was quite aware of what happened, but did not stop to help.
The boat was ferro/cement. It ended up in Madeira, towed in. One could use this to prove something, but I am not sure what.