Steelboats

[Brent Swain]

He is off again.

Brent-I have stated quite clearly that I AM IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH YOU!

Steel is a very good material to build boats from, cruise in out of the way places and have inherent strength. See- I've said it again!

I am not interested in your 42 years of living aboard and cruising. It is to me a matter of supreme indifference.

The point that pisses me off about you is the way you deride others with a different point of view, or deride those who choose a GRP vessel.

I have NEVER said anything to deride your chosen vessel-its your pride and joy, and long may it be so.

So, in future please don't refer to my boat as a Toy Boat and to me as a Marina Queen. My UK boat is a serious bit of kit, beautifully built in Florida and it does everything I want it too except sail a 10 KTS in 8KTS of wind.

Last year we exceeded 1600 NM around South and West Ireland, this year almost 1500 MN in the English channel and Northern France.

I would not change my boat for yours and it would have to be an extremely well equipped steel boat in fantastic condition for me to even consider a change.

You live the lifestyle you wish, as do I. My boat took me four years of research before I paid what for me, was a great deal of money. It is what I chose and is ideal for my purpose.

And I sail this fragile GRP deathtrap substantial mileages in some of the most challenging waters in the world. You mentioned Tom Cunliffe recently. He told me that if you can sail in the English Channel, you can sail anywhere.

You are never going to change your attitude, you appear to have a seriously one track-or should that be one material-mind.

So, you sail your tin can and I'll sail my Toy Boat, and we will say no more about it.

So much for that last statement! Your resolve to "say no more about it " didn't last long. I was going to leave it alone, but now that you are back:

A couple of 1500 and 1600 mile cruises, near a coast line , with the option of stopping in anywhere, any time, doesn't exactly make you much of an "expert" in long distance , off the beaten path, blue water cruising. That is the distance of a one way trip to Mexico from here, with far more, and far easier ports along the way, with an abundance of repair and supply facilities. No, tiny cruises like that don't make you an expert on long , Pacific distance cruising, or what matters for such cruising. Not a good source of advice on such cruising . 5,000 miles 'doesn't get you across , not even one way. Ports are few and far between, with nothing in the way of yottie services, or equipment, in most of them. That is where steel boats make up a major part of the cruising fleet.
Yes, doing your research for years, before buying a boat is a good idea.
I recently met yank who bought a Rhodes, for that "Classic" look , and all the fancy bright work on her. By the time he got to the west indies, he was exhausted by all the maintenance on her, far more than on any good steel boat. So he booked 3 days in a hotel, and when he got back to the boat, the varnish was cracking and peeling already.
So he sold her, and made up a list of priorities, assuming there were lots of stock plastic boats which would fill the bill . When he listed no cores, solid glass, the list of available boats shrank drastically , as it also did when he said no fig leaf rudders, only rudders on a good, solid skeg. It shrunk even further when he said no wood on deck, and again when he said adequate 2 ft side decks. By the time he got to the bottom of his priorities list, the number of boats for sale ,which would meet his priorities list, was miniscule, compared to what he started with .

One designer ( BP ) rails on about the maintenance required on a steel boat, yet many of his own boats are slave drivers, covered with varnish to maintain, a full time job in the tropics. Steel has huge advantages, and function, in terms of safety, brightwork has none ,except vain snobbery, which storms at sea are totally unimpressed by.

 

[bbg]

Brent, you have made it clear over and over again that a rust bucket is the right kind of boat for you. No money and poor navigation / pilotage makes rust the right choice. For you.

But most people who want to cruise long distance can afford something better, and they are competent enough not to end up on a reef every time they make landfall. So GRP is the best material. For them.

You shouldn't think that everyone is as incompetent a sailor as you, or that earning even a modest living is all that unusual. Don't judge others by your own inadequacies. GRP beats a rust bucket 999 times out of 1000 - at least - but not for you.

 

[rotrax]

All I had to do was read the papers during the Falkland war. Did you?

Which just goes to show what a line shooter you are. There was no mention of the cost being a reason for an aluminium deck and superstructure used on the Frigates. As you keep telling us aluminium-and the kit to weld it-is far more expensive than steel.

So the bit about the number jugglers is your total fabrication.

What else are you line shooting about?

The Falklands war is a bit close to home. One of my neighbours lost a son at Goose Green, a motorcycling friend suffered life changing injuries from an Argentine shell and a Sailing Club member was badly burned on the Atlantic Conveyor.

For your information, it was an all Steel ship. After the Exocet strikes-there were two IIRC, the fire was so fierce it ran out of control.

It appears from a quick search on Wiki that two unexploded bombs were left inside Antelope. One could not be reached, the other could not be defused and attempts with a controlled explosion failed, detonating the bomb.

Wiki appears clear that it was the on board munitions set off by the resulting fire that caused the inferno, not an aluminium superstructure.

But, thinking about it-what do they know?

Brent, as usual, has it right!

 

[A1Sailor]

How long did it last?
The Brits thought aluminium decks and superstructures were a good idea. The numbers jugglers loved it, until the Antelope burned like magnesium in the Falklands war. They believed the odds of that happening were "insignificant. " Then reality hit.
Those who believe math should always over ride common sense and logic, are severely lacking in the latter.

Well HMS Antelope didn't exactly spontaneously combust, did she? Was there not an exploding bomb and weapons magazines involved?
I don't think any of the Type21 frigates spontaneously combusted.

Maybe go back and read the papers... btw it was a conflict - war wasn't declared.

All I had to do was read the papers during the Falkland war. Did you?

 

[GHA]

GRP beats a rust bucket 999 times out of 1000 - at least - but not for you.

Fair weather round the solent maybe, keep heading far and wide over the horizon it's not so cut and dried. Assuming rust bucket is your terminology for a boat with a steel hull.

(what an insult ridden nasty post that was )

 

[dom]

Fair weather round the solent maybe, keep heading far and wide over the horizon it's not so cut and dried. Assuming rust bucket is your terminology for a boat with a steel hull.

(what an insult ridden nasty post that was )

bbg is actually an accomplished ocean racer. Think of this thread as sensible conversations taking place in the midst of a good old 1870s Kansas bar brawl.

Just duck when the odd bar stool, body, or piano comes flying by, order another beer, and carry on

 

[GHA]

bbg is actually an accomplished ocean racer. Think of this thread as sensible conversations taking place in the midst of a good old 1870s Kansas bar brawl.

Just duck when the odd bar stool, body, or piano comes flying by, order another beer, and carry on

GRP beats a rust bucket 999 times out of 1000 - at least

That's the brawl then, certainly ain't the real world.

No excuse for nastiness, even if there's plenty coming back.

 

[rotrax]

So much for that last statement! Your resolve to "say no more about it " didn't last long. I was going to leave it alone, but now that you are back:

A couple of 1500 and 1600 mile cruises, near a coast line , with the option of stopping in anywhere, any time, doesn't exactly make you much of an "expert" in long distance , off the beaten path, blue water cruising. That is the distance of a one way trip to Mexico from here, with far more, and far easier ports along the way, with an abundance of repair and supply facilities. No, tiny cruises like that don't make you an expert on long , Pacific distance cruising, or what matters for such cruising. Not a good source of advice on such cruising . 5,000 miles 'doesn't get you across , not even one way. Ports are few and far between, with nothing in the way of yottie services, or equipment, in most of them. That is where steel boats make up a major part of the cruising fleet.
Yes, doing your research for years, before buying a boat is a good idea.
I recently met yank who bought a Rhodes, for that "Classic" look , and all the fancy bright work on her. By the time he got to the west indies, he was exhausted by all the maintenance on her, far more than on any good steel boat. So he booked 3 days in a hotel, and when he got back to the boat, the varnish was cracking and peeling already.
So he sold her, and made up a list of priorities, assuming there were lots of stock plastic boats which would fill the bill . When he listed no cores, solid glass, the list of available boats shrank drastically , as it also did when he said no fig leaf rudders, only rudders on a good, solid skeg. It shrunk even further when he said no wood on deck, and again when he said adequate 2 ft side decks. By the time he got to the bottom of his priorities list, the number of boats for sale ,which would meet his priorities list, was miniscule, compared to what he started with .

One designer ( BP ) rails on about the maintenance required on a steel boat, yet many of his own boats are slave drivers, covered with varnish to maintain, a full time job in the tropics. Steel has huge advantages, and function, in terms of safety, brightwork has none ,except vain snobbery, which storms at sea are totally unimpressed by.

Another load of total bolleux.

Third time you have posted most of the above-your record stuck?

Most of the cruising fleet is NOT steel in the places you indicate. I'm in NZ and there are far more steel boats here than in Europe, but steel is far outnumbered here by GRP and Glassed over timber or plain timber.

You are right-I am not an expert on long distance ocean cruising. I came to sailing far too late for that to be an interest.

As I said before, you suffer from inverse snobbery, it diminishes your obvious talents.

 

[Skylark]

Am I alone in thinking that this thread is now repetitive, hence becoming dull and boring?

The very definition of “sailing” covers a very broad church. Many people derive great pleasure from their recreational activity which includes dinghies, power boats, motor boats, inshore, offshore, liveaboarders, nomadic sea gypsies and even racers! Surely it’s arrogant in the extreme to disparage others and impose “my way is best”. There’s room for all.

In my chosen profession, I followed the structured training and qualification route and this stood me in good stead for more than 40 years.

As to Mr S, in this or a parallel thread I’ve seen pictures of his raw welds and read his attempt at evaluating loads upon a structure. Evidence enough for me to form an opinion. His polaraising views should be taken with a pinch of salt. That said, I wish him fair winds.

 

[capnsensible]

All I had to do was read the papers during the Falkland war. Did you?

One of my friends that I joined the RN with was killed on HMS Sheffield. My friend who was best man at my wedding was one of the crew evacuated off of HMS Antelope whilst the sadly failed attempt to defuse an unexploded bomb was attempted. No papers required for me, my old China.

I have also sailed around 150,000 miles on yachts across the Atlantic 11 times and the Pacific once. Because I know how to navigate, it's clear that a grounding proof yacht is not necessary. In that time the vast majority of yachts I see are GRP. Most steel yachts are generally rusty ones tied up in some Marina.

So undoubtedly some steel boats are fit, some, like the Titanic, aren't. And at least going on and on on threads like this keep you usefully occupied whilst you too are tied up somewhere.

Should you pass by the Canary Islands one day, do drop in for a beer.

 

[john_morris_uk]

One of my friends that I joined the RN with was killed on HMS Sheffield. My friend who was best man at my wedding was one of the crew evacuated off of HMS Antelope whilst the sadly failed attempt to defuse an unexploded bomb was attempted. No papers required for me, my old China.

I have also sailed around 150,000 miles on yachts across the Atlantic 11 times and the Pacific once. Because I know how to navigate, it's clear that a grounding proof yacht is not necessary. In that time the vast majority of yachts I see are GRP. Most steel yachts are generally rusty ones tied up in some Marina.

So undoubtedly some steel boats are fit, some, like the Titanic, aren't. And at least going on and on on threads like this keep you usefully occupied whilst you too are tied up somewhere.

Should you pass by the Canary Islands one day, do drop in for a beer.

Cue for Brent to claim that the Atlantic isn’t real sailing and that only Pacific sailing counts?

I’ve sailed more than a few thousand miles in the N & S Atlantic and Far East etc in steel and GRP yachts but it appears that because I disagree with Brent my views don’t count either.

 

[capnsensible]

Cue for Brent to claim that the Atlantic isn’t real sailing and that only Pacific sailing counts?

I’ve sailed more than a few thousand miles in the N & S Atlantic and Far East etc in steel and GRP yachts but it appears that because I disagree with Brent my views don’t count either.

They all have lumpy bits at each end plus some in the middle, haven't they? Still we should all take comfort in the fact that no steel vessel has ever, in the history of man, sunk after a grounding. Oh wait a minute.......

 

[A1Sailor]

So undoubtedly some steel boats are fit, some, like the Titanic, aren't. And at least going on and on on threads like this keep you usefully occupied whilst you too are tied up somewhere.

Should you pass by the Canary Islands one day, do drop in for a beer.

Did I not read in a thread on here that steel boats don't need fire extinguishers nor liferafts? I may be wrong, but I think these were two of the supposed benefits thereof.

 

[Tranona]

Did I not read in a thread on here that steel boats don't need fire extinguishers nor liferafts? I may be wrong, but I think these were two of the supposed benefits thereof.

Yes, and they can be built for $1000 in 6 weeks in a garage using basic hand tools.

 

[A1Sailor]

Yes, and they can be built for $1000 in 6 weeks in a garage using basic hand tools.

...and if not designed properly do they fold?

 

[bbg]

Fair weather round the solent maybe, keep heading far and wide over the horizon it's not so cut and dried. Assuming rust bucket is your terminology for a boat with a steel hull.

(what an insult ridden nasty post that was )

I think you need to understand that my posts on this subject are aimed exclusively at BrentSwain. I think that if he argues in a certain manner, he should expect to receive a robust (and equally blinkered) response.

He basically says "Steel is best! Steel is best! I know better than anyone else! Anyone who chooses GRP (or plastic, as he dismissively calls it) is an ignorant fool! I know better than all those people who cruise in a GRP boat!"

Please.

 

[GHA]

I think you need to understand that my posts on this subject are aimed exclusively at BrentSwain. I think that if he argues in a certain manner, he should expect to receive a robust (and equally blinkered) response.

He basically says "Steel is best! Steel is best! I know better than anyone else! Anyone who chooses GRP (or plastic, as he dismissively calls it) is an ignorant fool! I know better than all those people who cruise in a GRP boat!"

Please.

Fair enough

Bicker away

Pity really, in amongst the somewhat bold claims he does actually know a lot about little tricks to make a good steel boat which don't make it into the books.

 

[bbg]

Yes, and they can be built for $1000 in 6 weeks in a garage using basic hand tools.

I'll see your $1000 in 6 weeks in a garage using basic hand tools and raise you $800 (Canadian) in 4 weeks (weekends off) in a disused barn using only a Swiss army knife and a box of matches.

 

[bbg]

Fair enough

Bicker away

Thank you sir. Fair winds.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Pity really, in amongst the somewhat bold claims he does actually know a lot about little tricks to make a good steel boat which don't make it into the books.

I agree with that as I have a steel boat and have made several mistakes in the construction that has increased the level of maintenance.

2 main points is to clean the boat hull inside and out to grey metal then paint and paint and paint again. The paint some more.

It a pity a GHA says his approach is so confrontational.