Starters clicking.... rubbish earth maybe?

[symondo]

Our engineer is in the process of finishing off our boat repairs we have asked for however i have been advised today the engines when you turn the ignition - just 'click'

Now ive a bit of knowledge on the set up - so can only assume the ignition relay is the part clicking, yet the starter is not getting any juice.

The batteries have all been replaced with brandnew units. so fear this maybe an earthing issue?

can anyone confirm that he starters should be either - Earthed to a common busbar OR earthed direct to the starting battery?
Im sure the current setup that is there is that the engines are earthed to the battery and then the batteries are earthed to a common bus bar.

 

[rob2]

Sounds like a posibility, but be aware that some marine starters and alternators are wired with an isolated earth, thus requiring a separate earth wire rather than earthing through the mounting and engine. Either way, check and remake all the heavy duty starter wiring to be sure then measure the voltage actually seen at the starter when operating. Back track until you find what is causing the voltage drop.

It could even be that the battery connectors were never fully tightened and can't carry the current required by the starter - I'd be worried about paying an "engineer" who comes back to you saying it doesn't work, rather than faultfinding such a basic situation!

Rob.

 

[symondo]

I think we now have an electrical engineer booked to now check it out tomorrow, although was hoping it could of been resolved before then as its another load of cash out the window lol

Plus I like to have this knowledge myself just incase as you never know when it comes in handy...

 

[alan17]

Just clicking

If all external connection clean and tight and the battery adequately charged I would suspect the starter motor brushes not making good contact with the commutator or the commutator segments solder failing. Try, with somebody holding the switch in the starter motor position giving the casing of the starter a hard sharp bang. This can cause the armature to rotate slightly and allow a good contact brushes to commutator. If this works you have no option but to at least overhaul the starter motor or fit a replacement.

 

[Woodlouse]

Dodgy solenoid perhaps? Have you tried shorting the contacts on it with a spanner or something?

 

[symondo]

If all external connection clean and tight and the battery adequately charged I would suspect the starter motor brushes not making good contact with the commutator or the commutator segments solder failing. Try, with somebody holding the switch in the starter motor position giving the casing of the starter a hard sharp bang. This can cause the armature to rotate slightly and allow a good contact brushes to commutator. If this works you have no option but to at least overhaul the starter motor or fit a replacement.

I would of hoped our engineer would of thougth about this option to see if it was a starter issue but noted. There will no doubt be hell to pay if this is the case as the previous owner had just serviced these units (July)

And we havent even been able to put it in the water or turn it over yet through other issues which were managed to be negated. Needless to say - its not been an easy experience.. and still proving to be the case.

 

[symondo]

Dodgy solenoid perhaps? Have you tried shorting the contacts on it with a spanner or something?

in short - no. We are about 60 miles from the boat so relying on our engineer at the yard. However i think the intention is to go down this weekend and do a few jobs so i think this shall be 1 of them if theres no resolution tomorrow.

 

[halcyon]

Our engineer is in the process of finishing off our boat repairs we have asked for however i have been advised today the engines when you turn the ignition - just 'click'

You say engines , have you two with the same problem ? if so probably a earth problem, as tow starters with the same fault very rare. If one engine as said check earths, or do it simple and short out terminals on solenoid, this will also answer earth question, if it turns over it's solenoid, if not it's earth.

Brian

 

[fisherman]

Two engines with two separate start batteries? As above, probably insulated return, he may have connected the neg to the engine chassis. Is the starter solenoid clicking, or something further up?

 

[Marsupial]

Our engineer is in the process of finishing off our boat repairs we have asked for however i have been advised today the engines when you turn the ignition - just 'click'

Now ive a bit of knowledge on the set up - so can only assume the ignition relay is the part clicking, yet the starter is not getting any juice.

The batteries have all been replaced with brandnew units. so fear this maybe an earthing issue?

can anyone confirm that he starters should be either - Earthed to a common busbar OR earthed direct to the starting battery?
Im sure the current setup that is there is that the engines are earthed to the battery and then the batteries are earthed to a common bus bar.

you mention engines so you have two of them?

if so I would suspect that your new batteries are flat, unusual for two starters to give trouble at the same time and unusual for wiring to change when replacing batteries.

IF you still think its something else then try and turn the engines by hand (bar them over) they may have seized - but this too is very rare but not unknown.

 

[symondo]

You say engines , have you two with the same problem ? if so probably a earth problem, as tow starters with the same fault very rare. If one engine as said check earths, or do it simple and short out terminals on solenoid, this will also answer earth question, if it turns over it's solenoid, if not it's earth.

Brian

Yes i believe both engines are sat there clicking like some 1970's telephone exchange which led me to believe its an earthing issue.
When we purchased the boat - 1 engine was running perfect as it just had the starter serviced, when viewing the other starter hadnt arrived but was refitted before we took it.

In hindsight with the other things we have encountered from what was assured and what the reality was... im preying the engine which was in the process of having a new started bolted back on is ok. i checked all the usual engine things - water, oil, belts, any leak signs/corrosion etc...

We were however assured all was in and working/running in black and white - which as it seems its not. yet hopefully its a small item

I'll sleep better once i know it runs.

 

[Marsupial]

Yes i believe both engines are sat there clicking like some 1970's telephone exchange which led me to believe its an earthing issue.
When we purchased the boat - 1 engine was running perfect as it just had the starter serviced, when viewing the other starter hadnt arrived but was refitted before we took it.

In hindsight with the other things we have encountered from what was assured and what the reality was... im preying the engine which was in the process of having a new started bolted back on is ok. i checked all the usual engine things - water, oil, belts, any leak signs/corrosion etc...

We were however assured all was in and working/running in black and white - which as it seems its not. yet hopefully its a small item

I'll sleep better once i know it runs.

I still go with flat batteries

 

[capsco]

If all external connection clean and tight and the battery adequately charged I would suspect the starter motor brushes not making good contact with the commutator or the commutator segments solder failing. Try, with somebody holding the switch in the starter motor position giving the casing of the starter a hard sharp bang. This can cause the armature to rotate slightly and allow a good contact brushes to commutator. If this works you have no option but to at least overhaul the starter motor or fit a replacement.

Earlier post stated starters not getting any juice.

 

[Marsupial]

Earlier post stated starters not getting any juice.

if the solenoids are clicking there is some leky about, I still go with not enough - flat batteries

 

[Woodlouse]

If there are two engines then it's unlikely to be solenoid trouble as suggested. I'd have thought an engineer would be capable of diagnosing flat batteries almost immediately though. I wonder if there is an adequate contact between the starter motor and the engine. I replaced a starter motor earlier this year with a reconditioned replacement. The thing wouldn't work at first because the mating surface had been painted which stopped the electrical current, two minutes with a scraper and problem solved.

 

[halcyon]

Yes i believe both engines are sat there clicking like some 1970's telephone exchange which led me to believe its an earthing issue.
When we purchased the boat - 1 engine was running perfect as it just had the starter serviced, when viewing the other starter hadnt arrived but was refitted before we took it.

In hindsight with the other things we have encountered from what was assured and what the reality was... im preying the engine which was in the process of having a new started bolted back on is ok. i checked all the usual engine things - water, oil, belts, any leak signs/corrosion etc...

We were however assured all was in and working/running in black and white - which as it seems its not. yet hopefully its a small item

I'll sleep better once i know it runs.

When you turn the key to start the engine, do the engine lights go out, have you a engine voltmeter? what does the voltage do ?

Brian

 

[alan17]

Having re read your original post and now realising that we are talking about 2 starter motors both just clicking I suggest that you ignore my original post and simply concentrate on the battery/connections as the most probable fault.

Next time I will try rereading the original post before putting finger to keyboard!

 

[symondo]

Well heres the update after managing to pay a visit today....

Opened up engine bay, checked all cables, all fine for connections, continuity tested etc... turned on the isolators and also set the 1/2/both to both opposed to the off position

And guess what, both starters turned over 1st time. Managed to fire up 1 engine no problem, the other the battery has taken a hammering from the engineer I can only assume so wasn't enough to kick it into action.

So I'm a little baffled as to why our engineer has had issue as I thought checking a power feed was standard procedure?

On top of this I finally got our webasto to fire up with hot air coming out so overall quite a result!

 

[Lakesailor]

I am amazed that an "engineer" going on site to do work like that hasn't had a set of jump leads he could test the battery-to-starter with.
That would eliminate several items and he could just reduce this temporary circuit until nothing happened. Then he knows what the problem is. Even a multi-meter would have helped him.
I'd get him off the job as soon as you can. Who knows what else he hasn't quite got to the bottom of.

 

[Woodlouse]

I am amazed that an "engineer" going on site to do work like that hasn't had a set of jump leads he could test the battery-to-starter with.
That would eliminate several items and he could just reduce this temporary circuit until nothing happened. Then he knows what the problem is. Even a multi-meter would have helped him.
I'd get him off the job as soon as you can. Who knows what else he hasn't quite got to the bottom of.

A multi-meter would have had the problem diagnosed almost immediately. The fact a slightly flat battery foxed the engineer is a bit worrying since I'm assuming it was he who changed them for new ones.