Start engine out of water?

[ChromeDome]

Sort of general agreement here

Just to add an angle:
I have the Vetus strainers with clear lid. Made one extra lid with a Gardena connector and connect a hose whenever I want to run the engines on the hard.
I do leave the seacock OPEN - this way the hose will fill the strainer and if the engine is not taking the water, it will just go out of the seacock.

Easy to move the lid from one to the other strainer (two engines).

In my case, the impeller pumps take so much water, that a hose will keep up at idle only, so no revving!

 

[coopec]

using a Hose into strainer is NOT a good idea ......

You risk flooding the exhaust and possibly back to engine .... water should be DRAWN by the engine pump - not force fed.

I agree it is not a good idea. But I felt confident as I had designed/installed the exhaust system myself.

I knew the motor would start instantly so I injected water into the strainer hose at the same time. Now here is a video clip of the motor running.

Would that be too much water coming out of the exhaust if the motor was propelling the yacht in the water? (Just wondering what to expect once I launch).

Just one more question: Is an impeller sufficient as an emergency spare?

https://flic.kr/p/2fxjCGm

 

[NormanS]

using a Hose into strainer is NOT a good idea ......

You risk flooding the exhaust and possibly back to engine .... water should be DRAWN by the engine pump - not force fed.

For the avoidance of doubt, there is no way that filling the inlet strainer with a hose presents any danger of flooding the exhaust and/or engine. Excess water merely floods the bilges. Filling the strainer does NOT force feed anything.
Personally, I prefer my method of the bucket at WL level with its hose stuffed into the skin fitting. Partly because it doesn't involve taking a live water hose aboard, and doesn't mean disassembling anything.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I disconnect the raw water hose from the seacock and put the open end in a bucket of water, (placed just in front of the engine) then run a hose to the bucket to keep the bucket topped up, then run the engine for 10-15 minutes so that the stat opens, this gives the raw water a good flush through. I do have a Vetus filter easily accessible , so could use the method suggested by Tranona, but I find that as I want to run the engine for a19-15 minutes it's simpler to use the inlet pipe into the bucket.
I do this straight after lift -out when for the last few seconds of running I pour anti-freeze into the system for the winter, then 2 to 3 days before lift in I do the same (but don't bother with the anti-freeze), by doing this a couple of days before lift-in I can be relatively certain that the engine is fine and should be OK for lift-in, ad a couple of days to sort it out if not.
I remove the impeller over winter and give it a light smear of silicon grease, have followed this procedure on two different Beta engines over the last 25 years and so far the system seems to work.
A cautionary note, a friend made the mistake of putting the water supply hose straight on to the water intake and immediately flooded his engine.

 

[Tranona]

..... if I was to force feed water as example on my Perkins --- especially with engine not running - I run risk of backflooding the exhaust manifold and into any cylinder that a valve is open.
Yes if engine is running - the exhaust should 'push'out any water ...

I prefer to listen to the advice of a Marine Engineer ... who have advised that the water supply should be BELOW the exhaust manifold and DRAWN by the engine .... or as I was shown many many years ago ... close intake .. open up intake ... fit funnel into intake and then pour in slowly allowing engine to draw the fluid up as you pour in.

I prefer NOT to risk backflooding an engine tank you.

That simply will not happen. You just cannot force water past the pump and any excess after you have filled the strainer and the hoses will overflow into the bilges. I don't know what strange system you have, but the OP has a Beta with an above waterline strainer and only wants to start the engine to make sure it works. Easy to do as several of us have described with zero risk of flooding the engine. No need to use a hose for short runs as you can keep it topped up with a watering can or a bucket on the bridge deck with a hose running out of the bottom. when we started my new engine we did run a hose into the strainer but left the seacock open (as in post#21) so any excess ran out of the bottom. The pump took what it wanted when the engine started and pumped the water out of the exhaust. Ran for about 15 minutes like that.

I am afraid your "marine engineer" is wrong as just about every post on this thread has demonstrated, although I suspect he is talking about systems that don't have an above the waterline strainer - although even then whether the supply is above or below the pump it will make no difference to flooding the engine via the exhaust if the engine starts. If you just turn over the engine without it firing it will of course fill the exhaust, independent of whether the supply is from below or above.

 

[thinwater]

Really, if you are only going to run the engine lightly for a minute, you just need to get the impeller wet. If it was winterized it has glycol in it, a good lubricant.

The risk of old impellor failure is not just loss of cooling, it is also "where did all the bits go?" You may be picking them out of passages and the heat exchanger. That's when you feel dumb.

 

[davidej]

I think what is meant is that the engine pump draws water from the strainer and the hose just keeps the strainer topped up.

No forcing involved!

 

[Refueler]

That simply will not happen. You just cannot force water past the pump and any excess after you have filled the strainer and the hoses will overflow into the bilges. I don't know what strange system you have, but the OP has a Beta with an above waterline strainer and only wants to start the engine to make sure it works. Easy to do as several of us have described with zero risk of flooding the engine. No need to use a hose for short runs as you can keep it topped up with a watering can or a bucket on the bridge deck with a hose running out of the bottom. when we started my new engine we did run a hose into the strainer but left the seacock open (as in post#21) so any excess ran out of the bottom. The pump took what it wanted when the engine started and pumped the water out of the exhaust. Ran for about 15 minutes like that.

I am afraid your "marine engineer" is wrong as just about every post on this thread has demonstrated, although I suspect he is talking about systems that don't have an above the waterline strainer - although even then whether the supply is above or below the pump it will make no difference to flooding the engine via the exhaust if the engine starts. If you just turn over the engine without it firing it will of course fill the exhaust, independent of whether the supply is from below or above.

If you go back and read properly my first - you will see that I provided a good way to do the trial start .... my later was in response to somebody using a hose - and my post on that was not aimed at OP - but as a general comment not to use a hose.

 

[Refueler]

I think what is meant is that the engine pump draws water from the strainer and the hose just keeps the strainer topped up.

No forcing involved!

Fine ....

 

[Refueler]

For the avoidance of doubt, there is no way that filling the inlet strainer with a hose presents any danger of flooding the exhaust and/or engine. Excess water merely floods the bilges. Filling the strainer does NOT force feed anything.
Personally, I prefer my method of the bucket at WL level with its hose stuffed into the skin fitting. Partly because it doesn't involve taking a live water hose aboard, and doesn't mean disassembling anything.

Years ago - I stopped a guy who had a marvellous idea ... he'd obtained a screw fitting that fitted the top of water inlet strainer instead of the screw cap. His idea was to connect the hose by this fitting .... with that - there would be no way for excess water to overflow into bilges.

My posts about this are based on that and I am sure he is not only guy who has considered such method.

If people go back and read earlier post and other threads I have replied in - my method is to pour into a funnel sited in the strainer ...

 

[38mess]

It will run fine for a minute or two without any coolant, the impeller will be ok. You only want to make sure it starts don't you?
You could always remove the impeller if you are worried it will fry

 

[NormanS]

Years ago - I stopped a guy who had a marvellous idea ... he'd obtained a screw fitting that fitted the top of water inlet strainer instead of the screw cap. His idea was to connect the hose by this fitting .... with that - there would be no way for excess water to overflow into bilges.

My posts about this are based on that and I am sure he is not only guy who has considered such method.

If people go back and read earlier post and other threads I have replied in - my method is to pour into a funnel sited in the strainer ...

So your posts about the danger of using a hose, are based on one person's brainless notion of CONNECTING a hose direct to the water strainer. We can draw our own conclusions.

 

[Refueler]

So your posts about the danger of using a hose, are based on one person's brainless notion of CONNECTING a hose direct to the water strainer. We can draw our own conclusions.

So my warning against it is so bad ???? Draw your own conclusions .... not my problem ...

 

[Refueler]

It will run fine for a minute or two without any coolant, the impeller will be ok. You only want to make sure it starts don't you?
You could always remove the impeller if you are worried it will fry

Which is very true.

 

[vyv_cox]

It will run fine for a minute or two without any coolant, the impeller will be ok. You only want to make sure it starts don't you?
You could always remove the impeller if you are worried it will fry

It's the exhaust trap that will not 'run fine'. A Vetus plastic trap will melt in less than a minute with no water flow. I speak from experience. My water pump failed when I started the engine in the entrance to Scheveningen harbour. I motored for less than a minute to anchor safely. Exhaust trap internals melted away.

 

[Wandering Star]

As

I think what is meant is that the engine pump draws water from the strainer and the hose just keeps the strainer topped up.

No forcing involved!

As the OP, thats the method I used, I just topped up the Venus strainer using a gentle flow of water from a hose, could have used a watering can and being still slightly nervous, I only ran the engine for a few seconds. Once the boats launched, my first task is a full engine service with the engine warmed up including fresh oil, new impeller & all new filters because despite the engine only having been run for 27 hours it’s possibly (probably) 3 years since it was run prior Which was my reason for seeking advice, I needed to check it hadn't seized up due to non-use.

 

[38mess]

It's the exhaust trap that will not 'run fine'. A Vetus plastic trap will melt in less than a minute with no water flow. I speak from experience. My water pump failed when I started the engine in the entrance to Scheveningen harbour. I motored for less than a minute to anchor safely. Exhaust trap internals melted away.

Good point.

 

[Tranona]

As

As the OP, thats the method I used, I just topped up the Venus strainer using a gentle flow of water from a hose, could have used a watering can and being still slightly nervous, I only ran the engine for a few seconds. Once the boats launched, my first task is a full engine service with the engine warmed up including fresh oil, new impeller & all new filters because despite the engine only having been run for 27 hours it’s possibly (probably) 3 years since it was run prior Which was my reason for seeking advice, I needed to check it hadn't seized up due to non-use.

I had the same engine (although a Nanni version) in my Eventide which like yours had only run less than 30 hours. Laid up for 9 years. Started instantly out of the water with flow through the strainer. Changed oil filters, checked coolant all before launching. Also emptied old diesel out and put in new, although don't think there was anything wrong with it. Engine ran fine after launching. Three years' inactivity won't have done any harm.

 

[PabloPicasso]

..... if I was to force feed water as example on my Perkins --- especially with engine not running - I run risk of backflooding the exhaust manifold and into any cylinder that a valve is open.
Yes if engine is running - the exhaust should 'push'out any water ...

I prefer to listen to the advice of a Marine Engineer ... who have advised that the water supply should be BELOW the exhaust manifold and DRAWN by the engine .... or as I was shown many many years ago ... close intake .. open up intake ... fit funnel into intake and then pour in slowly allowing engine to draw the fluid up as you pour in.

I prefer NOT to risk backflooding an engine tank you.

Exactly. If you're testing the engine there has to be a chance it won't start, and hence risk of back flooding.

Why take that chance when it can easily be done without doing so.

 

[Tranona]

Exactly. If you're testing the engine there has to be a chance it won't start, and hence risk of back flooding.

Why take that chance when it can easily be done without doing so.

If it does not start then you don't keep on trying. In fact it will take ages to pump enough water through at starter speed revs to fill the exhaust to the point that it would back up into the engine. Just try it and see how little water is used even when the engine fires at tickover.

Really is no risk of the type suggested there. Nothing is being "forced" through the engine. water only gets into the system by being pumped in.