Standing Rigging and Sails

[Fire99]

Evening Folks,

Well next on my to do list is to address my Standing Rigging and Sails.
The Standing Rigging was new a couple of years ago so is in good condition but i'm a little concerned about the tensioning.
I've read up on it but don't own a Tension guage so before investing any money do people recommend this as the best route or is getting it checked a cost effective method.

Regarding the Sails, well the Mainsail i'd say is a little baggy but may be worth getting it checked since I don't know yet what are acceptable limits and what can be repaired by a sailmaker and at what point it's new sails time. So any advice on that would be appreciated or a recommendation of a good sailmaker in the Brightlingsea/ Essex area would be good.

Anyway, If anyone can be of help that would be appreciated.

cheers,

Nick

 

[carise]

Having just rerigged my yacht, I would wholeheartedly recommend biting the bullet and paying for a professional rigger to examine and set up the rig- will probably cost a lot less than you'd imagine and you get a proper job done to boot!

Evening Folks,

Well next on my to do list is to address my Standing Rigging and Sails.
The Standing Rigging was new a couple of years ago so is in good condition but i'm a little concerned about the tensioning.
I've read up on it but don't own a Tension guage so before investing any money do people recommend this as the best route or is getting it checked a cost effective method.

Regarding the Sails, well the Mainsail i'd say is a little baggy but may be worth getting it checked since I don't know yet what are acceptable limits and what can be repaired by a sailmaker and at what point it's new sails time. So any advice on that would be appreciated or a recommendation of a good sailmaker in the Brightlingsea/ Essex area would be good.

Anyway, If anyone can be of help that would be appreciated.

cheers,

Nick

 

[William_H]

Rig tension

I may be wrong but in my experience rig tension as a factor in boat performance is very overated.
Rig tension is primarily to provide proper support for the mast. ie keep it straight and it will stay up.
Over all rig tension is not as important as the ratios of tension on stays to get the mast straight.
When I say straight I mean really a little bend middle forward but straight athwartships and checked under load. The mast will normally be a little raked aft but only slightly.

So you need to get the boat level (sideways) and fore and aft. check the mast for vertical and adjust the forestay to give a little rake. Intermediate stays should be loose. Adjust cap shrouds to get mast vertical sideways. This can be checked by spirit level or by using a halyard to get the same length down to gunwhale either side. Cap stays should be fairly tight but not so much as to distort the hull.
Intermediate stays are then tightened to get the mast straight in fore and aft and sideways and should have similar static tension to caps.
Go for a sail and check that mast stays straight under real pressure give intermediates more tension to keep it straight. Slackness in leeward stays is normal unavoidable but not too much.

In other words fiddle with the tension yourself. No I wouldn't call in a professional you will have many times in the future the need to readjust check stay tension and no you don't need a gauge.

Main Sails that are old with a little stretch tend to be fine for light winds but will give problems when you need flat sails in a blow. Reefing either a flattening reef or a full reef should flatten out even an old sail.
With the jib if you have replaceable jibs then the smaller jibs for stronger winds will be realy bad if they are stretched when you want flat. The no1 will not perhaps matter quite so much if it is stretched a bit but if you have a furling jib then a new jib may give better performance.

I think your best bet might be to get more experience with the sails as you have them and don't be too quick to throw the sails away. If they are getting holes and tears then of course the time has come.
good luck olewill

 

[William_H]

Professional rig adjustment

Carise reply seems to have come while I was typing. I wouldn't say he is wrong by any means and you may benefit by a professional adjusting the rig. I am more advocating another point of view that you find out for yourself how to do it and get into it.There are lots of links on this forum to mast manufacturers advice. Certainly most of my friends (about 50) at my club DIY especially as we have to lower masts to transit bridges so it is disturbed often. olewill

 

[carise]

(Greetings from South Wales)

In return I would not disagree with olewill, but I certainly gained an awful lot from spending some time chatting to the rigger as measured by a) my confidence in the rig and b) losing 99% of my weather helm! I'm sure I could have resolved this myself with some fiddling and tweeking etc, but it was quicker, and a darn sight more enjoyable, to share a couple of hours onboard with a guy who really knew what he was doing and was able and willing to share his knowledge.

As I said in a similar thread on this matter, having the rig examined professionally allowed me/us to identify some hairline fractures in some fittings that would otherwise not have come to light until their probable catastrophic failure!

Having had the rig set up properly and having seen it done, I would have very much increased confidence, should the need arise, to unstep and restep the mast on my boat, knowing where things should and, perhaps more importantly, shouldn't be!

Carise reply seems to have come while I was typing. I wouldn't say he is wrong by any means and you may benefit by a professional adjusting the rig. I am more advocating another point of view that you find out for yourself how to do it and get into it.There are lots of links on this forum to mast manufacturers advice. Certainly most of my friends (about 50) at my club DIY especially as we have to lower masts to transit bridges so it is disturbed often. olewill

 

[Fire99]

Thanks guys,

All your replies make alot of sense. As a matter of interest, what kind of ballpark figure are we looking at having a professional to inspect your standing rigging for an hour or two?

I'm reading up on standing rigging at the moment and am slowly getting my head around it which doesn't seem to bad, even for a former MOBO chap.

I just would like to get the boat to a good benchmark figure to get started and am looking at the best way of getting there.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I may be wrong but in my experience rig tension as a factor in boat performance is very overated.
Rig tension is primarily to provide proper support for the mast. ie keep it straight and it will stay up.
Over all rig tension is not as important as the ratios of tension on stays to get the mast straight.

That all sounds very sensible to me. Unless you are trying to make fairly drastic changes to the shape of the mast, the sail will, I think, generally do all the tensioning that's required. I was always taught ... and this may be hopelessly outdated - that with the boat well (30 degrees) heeled on a reach, the leeward shrouds should just and no more be slack. Additionally, those of us with hanked on jibs will generally aim to tighten the jib halyard until the forestay goes slack, so static tensioning of the backstay/forestay isn't very important either.

In other words, I agree. The rigging holds the mast in the right shape, and the tension is "whatever is needed to do that".

 

[davidej]

For a sailmaker in north Essex try Nick Musset at Waldegraves ind estate- West Mersea. He and his son are a two man band and have given me excellent service.

PM me if youy cant track them down.

 

[Fire99]

Well I have the forestay and backstay to adjust plus the three shrouds down each side and ropes that adjust the spreaders, so it's getting the right sequence in adjusting everything down.

If my memory serves me right, the middle shroud on the leeward side is very slack when close hauled.

I've got a hank-on Jib so may work on the theory of putting more tension on the Halyard for that one.


Thanks David. I'll see if I can track them down. Any probs and i'll give you a shout if thats ok.

 

[FullCircle]

Give Dragon Rigging Services a call - based in Southminster.
Dave on 07796032564
He does all the rigging on Full Circle and is cheap/reliable/flexible.

Good bloke.

 

[carise]

I don't know what prices are like in your part of the world, but over here a professional checkup for a modest size boat (under 30') wouldn't set you back more than £60-£70, which I think is very fair!

Money well spent imho!!

Paul

 

[Sailmar]

Feel the boat

I just want to add, that one of the most important things is to feel the boat and have tuned to the way you sail. More power/less Power, more upwind/less upwind.

Sail in other boats, equal (or similar) to yours and gain experience by testing different settings, write the changes you do, so you are able to go to a previous setting.

Work with the backstay, when the wind grows. Work also with your sheet travel. Unless your mast tunning is really bad, you may found a proper tunnig to your sails with the sheets, sheets travel, backstay and a few other points.

 

[Fire99]

Thanks people..

Well i'm going to research up a bit more to see if I get a feel for things. If all else fails i'll give the chap in Southminster a call and have a chat with him.
I like to get stuck in and do most stuff myself but i'm also willing to lean from the people who know what they're doing to get started on the right foot.

 

[tornado413]

Hi There,
Happy to have alook at your sails or quote you for new ones, we are based in Ramsgate but quite often travel further up the east coast, Contact details below.
Regards Simon


Northrop Sails Ltd
13 Miliatary Rd
Ramsgate
Kent
CT11 9LG
Tel/Fax 01843 851665
Web - www.northropsails.com
Email - info@northropsails.com

 

[Fire99]

Hi There,
Happy to have alook at your sails or quote you for new ones, we are based in Ramsgate but quite often travel further up the east coast, Contact details below.
Regards Simon


Northrop Sails Ltd
13 Miliatary Rd
Ramsgate
Kent
CT11 9LG
Tel/Fax 01843 851665
Web - www.northropsails.com
Email - info@northropsails.com

Thanks Simon,

I'll keep your info to hand when I get to getting my sails checked.

 

[pugwash60]

If you have swept back spreaders then the cap shrouds need to be tight enough that when sailing the leeward one isn't slack otherwise the windward one imparts a twist to the mast for which it isn't designed, a fairly common type of unneccesary mast failure.
When setting up your spreaders they need to be angled up slightly so that the angle from the chain plate to the spreader and the angle from the masthead to the spreader are as near as possible equal, you see a lot of boats with the spreaders horizontal and this puts a downward load on the spreader. If you aren't confident I'd have thought that getting a rigger or other experienced chap to help you would be worthwhile, you will have enough to worry about if the wind gets up without worrying about whether the rig set up is safely.

 

[Lakesailor]

Whilst it may be an idea to have a professional have a look. Some may be willing to explain what they are doing. Others may want to keep the Dark Art their own secret.
Have a look at the excellent links to .pdf files on the Kemp Sails web site. These give you the information you need to set about getting it set up yourself to a degree which you may feel is perfectly OK. If anything still niggles you can call in the expert.

 

[Fire99]

Whilst it may be an idea to have a professional have a look. Some may be willing to explain what they are doing. Others may want to keep the Dark Art their own secret.
Have a look at the excellent links to .pdf files on the Kemp Sails web site. These give you the information you need to set about getting it set up yourself to a degree which you may feel is perfectly OK. If anything still niggles you can call in the expert.

Thanks, yeah I did wonder if the 'pro's' would set the rig up but keep the info to themselves. I guess it's down to the individual. In my field I don't mind letting people know what i'm doing. It usually gives people more faith that they're getting value for money.

However, thanks for the Kemp Sails link. I think i'm gonna take the plunge and try and get a reasonable setup myself and then if I'm still struggling, call the A-Team in afterwards.

As a matter of interest, I was checking out a good number of yachts at the harbour and the Rigging tension varies quite dramatically between different yachts. (Many of the same size and seemingly configuration)

 

[reginaldon]

Whilst it may be an idea to have a professional have a look. Some may be willing to explain what they are doing. Others may want to keep the Dark Art their own secret.
Have a look at the excellent links to .pdf files on the Kemp Sails web site. These give you the information you need to set about getting it set up yourself to a degree which you may feel is perfectly OK. If anything still niggles you can call in the expert.

Lakesailor thanks for the excellent link to the Kemp Sails website, I'm sure many of us will find it invaluable

 

[doug748]

I am sure you will have no problems. I have resisted chipping in on this thread, but the job is easy - particularly on a simple masthead rig. Provided the rig is upright and the tensions are fairly even it will not fall down. After that you can tinker if you fancy you need to.