Standard Horizon CP180 and AIS transponder

[jwilson]

I have two plotters: a B&G Vulcan at the helm and an old SH CP180 at the chart table.

For several years both have happily displayed AIS targets from a RECEIVER. I am just in the process of fitting an Emtrak B923 TRANSPONDER. On initial testing the Vulcan showed my own boat as a "Dangerous target" but a minute or so of going through Vulcan menu options found a place to enter my own MMSI and get this removed, just showing other AIS targets.

I have spent an hour going through the CP180 menu system and even reading the manual, and cannot find a similar way to tell the little plotter that my own boat is not a dangerous target. Any suggestions - there are so many of these older SH180 and 300 series plotters out there that someone else must have hit this problem?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Pretty sure there is nowhere in the SH plotter to enter a MMSI, neither should there be a need to do so.

Do you still have the receiver connected, or just the Emtrak ?

Is there any connectivity between the SH and the Vulcan ?

What happens with the SH is you turn everything off, except the SH and Emtrak?

 

[jwilson]

The Vulcan and various other gubbins is on a NMEA2000 backbone, the SH180 is on NMEA0183, connected only to it's own GPS and to the old AIS receiver which has separate 2000 and 0183 outputs. I suppose worst case I can leave the old receiver in situ just to feed the SH180.

If the SH180 dies I'll put in a newer NMEA2000 plotter in it's place, but they seem to go on for ever: it has outlasted three other plotters at the helm - two Garmins and the original Vulcan 7, now replaced with a Vulcan 7R.

 

[prv]

the SH180 is on NMEA0183, connected only to it's own GPS and to the old AIS receiver

Well, there's the problem. The old receiver is warning you about the new transmitter, which it has no way of knowing is on board the same boat. The Emtrak won't cause warnings about itself, so you should feed the old plotter from that instead. I don't know the specific model, but I believe most or all Emtrak units have 0183 output.

I'm a bit surprised you kept the receiver instead of replacing it. Didn't that mean you had to install a whole new AIS antenna instead of reusing the existing one?

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

Well, there's the problem. The old receiver is warning you about the new transmitter, which it has no way of knowing is on board the same boat. The Emtrak won't cause warnings about itself, so you should feed the old plotter from that instead. I don't know the specific model, but I believe most or all Emtrak units have 0183 output.

I'm a bit surprised you kept the receiver instead of replacing it. Didn't that mean you had to install a whole new AIS antenna instead of reusing the existing one?

Pete

Yep, that's why i asked the questions.

It is pointless leaving the old receiver on, IMO. All Emtrak B900 series AIS have two NMEA0183 ports, in addition the N2K and USB. It makes sense to me to use the high speed port on the Emtrak.

 

[jwilson]

The existing receiver is a B&G V50 VHF with built-in AIS receive, which I had planned to remove and replace with another VHF as I wanted a command mic fitted, and the matching command mic for this model is no longer on sale. I will investigate further on board later today. As the NMEA2000 output from the Emtrak clearly includes the "boat's own MMSI" and I had to go into the menus on the Vulcan to stop it showing as a dangerous target I assumed the same was going to have to be done on the SH180. I stopped the connection process yesterday evening as it got dark before finishing wiring in the SH.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The existing receiver is a B&G V50 VHF with built-in AIS receive, which I had planned to remove and replace with another VHF as I wanted a command mic fitted, and the matching command mic for this model is no longer on sale. I will investigate further on board later today. As the NMEA2000 output from the Emtrak clearly includes the "boat's own MMSI" and I had to go into the menus on the Vulcan to stop it showing as a dangerous target I assumed the same was going to have to be done on the SH180. I stopped the connection process yesterday evening as it got dark before finishing wiring in the SH.

Ah, now we have the full story

The CP180 will work just fine with either the B&G or the Emtrak AIS. I would suggest the Emtrak makes more sense.

The Vulcan would also be OK with receiving AIS from the B&G or Emtrak, but not both, hence my first question in post#2. Having two sources of AIS is likely why the Vulcan was confused, you wouldn't normally have to enter the MMSI (or i'm pretty sure you wouldn't). I would disable AIS output from the B&G.

 

[prv]

As the NMEA2000 output from the Emtrak clearly includes the "boat's own MMSI"

It‘s not so much that it includes its own MMSI (though it probably is in there in some N2k equivalent of VDO) as that it doesn’t send itself as a target in the first place.

That‘s how it will work with the Standard Horizon when you connect it to the Emtrak. It won‘t be filtering itself out, it just won’t be sent a VDM target message about itself in the first place.

Pete

 

[jwilson]

Ah, now we have the full story

The CP180 will work just fine with either the B&G or the Emtrak AIS. I would suggest the Emtrak makes more sense.

The Vulcan would also be OK with receiving AIS from the B&G or Emtrak, but not both, hence my first question in post#2. Having two sources of AIS is likely why the Vulcan was confused, you wouldn't normally have to enter the MMSI (or i'm pretty sure you wouldn't). I would disable AIS output from the B&G.

I temporarily disconnected the V50 AIS receive when testing the Vulcan so it could not be confused by two signals. I had to as until this afternoon I did not have an extra NMEA200 drop cable - the Emtrak did not come with one so I used the V50 cable. Even only getting the AIS output from the one device the Vulcan clearly showed a big purple 'dangerous target' icon over the yacht position, till I went into the Vulcan menus and gave it my own MMSI.

I'm slightly in uncharted waters here, but as a tolerably competent boat owner with some experience of electrics and computers I thought this would be easy. Now I have the extra cable I need I'll go back to this tomorrow!

 

[PaulRainbow]

I temporarily disconnected the V50 AIS receive when testing the Vulcan so it could not be confused by two signals. I had to as until this afternoon I did not have an extra NMEA200 drop cable - the Emtrak did not come with one so I used the V50 cable. Even only getting the AIS output from the one device the Vulcan clearly showed a big purple 'dangerous target' icon over the yacht position, till I went into the Vulcan menus and gave it my own MMSI.

I'm slightly in uncharted waters here, but as a tolerably competent boat owner with some experience of electrics and computers I thought this would be easy. Now I have the extra cable I need I'll go back to this tomorrow!

It normally is simple John. Something is missing, The Emtrak broadcasts your AIS data and it receives everyone else's. It sends all of the received data over the N2K and NMEA 1083 ports, it does not send it's own AIS data via N2K.

I cannot think of anyway your own AIS data can get directly from the Emtrak to the Vulcan. The only way i can think of that the Vulcan can get that information is if the Emtrak is broadcasting it and something else is receiving it and sending it to the Vulcan.

Is there an NMEA0183 connection between the CP180 and the Vulcan?

Can you try the Emtrak and Vulcan with everything else turned off ?

Or, what happens if you turn the AIS off within the V50 ?

I have fitted many Emtrak AIS units and have never had this issue, something is definitely being missed.

 

[jwilson]

Now fixed and all working. The Vulcan on NMEA2000 needed own boat MMSI input to stop it showing as a dangerous target, even with the V50 disconnected so only one AIS source. The SH CP-180 on the NMEA0183 output just worked. Posting this final message in case someone later searches for same problem.