Stainless steel anchor chain

Or, why not simple splice 2 short lengths of rope to a hook and secure everything on deck? ie hook is engaged just within bow roller stem. Easy to deploy, easy to remove.
 
It seems to me that the stopper would fit perfectly above the lower part of the bow roller.
And you might as well suggest Princess that they could replace this bit of their 360 tour, with those awful ropes securing the anchor (whose shank btw appears twisted!), with your much better setup...! :cool:
P68anchor.jpg
 
I found on my Princess that the chain stopper would fit in the stainless u channel, it was a swine to drill, but it's a really strong fixing, even room for a 'twist!
 
Magnum said:
Or, why not simple splice 2 short lengths of rope to a hook and secure everything on deck? ie hook is engaged just within bow roller stem. Easy to deploy, easy to remove.
Click to expand...

We do exactly that as the 'ultimate' fall back. We have standard G80 clutch, shortening hook, claw (call it what you will) retained with dyneema that is attached to a strong point on the deck. Should our snubber fail, the claw/dyneema will keep the load off the windlass. We use the same claw/dyneema to retain the anchor when at sea.

Such a solution still allows the chain to rattle and grind on the bow roller - but it does protect the windlass.

These claws are easy to attach to the chain, they simply drop on, and easy to remove. They cannot be used with success 'outboard' - they fall off too easily.

We could not find galvanised version nor stainless - they come powder coated in a variety of primary colours. We had ours specially galvanised (so it looks very utilitarian).

Most of the lifting companies make them, Gunnebo, Pewag. Rud, Van Beest to name a few.

Edit, You can, of course, buy some stainless hooks of a variety of designs (focussed at the leisure marine industry). close edit

Try here

http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/anker-und-ketten/kettenstopper-und-haken/kettenhaken

They have a range of claws - and some are in stainless. I cannot recommend the hooks, only the claws.
 
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Magnum said:
The problem appears to be lack of space between the windlass and the end of the stem head roller. The Lewmar chain stopper is 148mm long.

If you have a look here and go to Gallery, 360 Tour, you can see the gap is quite tight. Need to find a solution somehow.
Click to expand...

Had a look at the gallery tour and the chain/windlass.

I think there might be room in the stainless steel chanel before the first roller.
My friend with the P56 fitted one inside the channel but I think it was a smaller chain.
Maybe he will comment.

Also, looking at the gallery pic, there may be space between the windlass and the channel.
IMO, it is certainly worth tge hassle of getting this right now.
I wish we had done ours years ago.

I know tgat Princess aren't very good at bespoke mods like this so maybe you could ask for the windlass to be fitted later - just free issue the parts.
Maybe that would embarrasse them into fitting a working anchoring arrangement that is fit for purpose!
Surely, they can't expext you to rely on the windlass' clutch!
 
And if you go the simple and cheap hook route - don't use the capstan as the strong point, it completely defeats the object as you still load the windlass. You need an independent strong point for the rope, which means it might not be simple. (nor cheap).
 
Neeves said:
And if you go the simple and cheap hook route - don't use the capstan as the strong point, it completely defeats the object as you still load the windlass. You need an independent strong point for the rope, which means it might not be simple. (nor cheap).
Click to expand...
It is actually very simple and costs nothing: it's sufficient to use the mooring cleats (they are just outside the pic in my post #42, astern of the fairleads).

That said, I disagree that attaching a rope to the capstan (in the same way as shown in the above pic) still loads the windlass. I mean, the chain loads the windlass rotationally, while a bowline attached to the capstan doesn't - and mechanically, the difference is huge.
Any pure pulling load with no rotational load capable to destroy the whole windlass/capstan assembly would probably be enough to rip off also the cleats...!
 
I had the problem of galvanized chain making a small hill at the chain storage area an finally stucking the windlass at the last moments of retrieving the chain, which most of the time put me in difficult situations. And that chain was 60 meters. I bought 100 meters of Cromox chrome chain. It flows like water, does not make up a pile at the chain storage, even though it is 40 meters longer. I also swapped my Delta anchor with a shiny and trustable Ultra anchor. Result: I sleep in peace )
 
MapisM, do you think the direction of the load on the cleats is important? That is, via the fairleads or inboard as per the above suggested "on deck" snubber?
 
MapisM said:
It is actually very simple and costs nothing: it's sufficient to use the mooring cleats (they are just outside the pic in my post #42, astern of the fairleads).

That said, I disagree that attaching a rope to the capstan (in the same way as shown in the above pic) still loads the windlass. I mean, the chain loads the windlass rotationally, while a bowline attached to the capstan doesn't - and mechanically, the difference is huge.
Any pure pulling load with no rotational load capable to destroy the whole windlass/capstan assembly would probably be enough to rip off also the cleats...!
Click to expand...

I have to wonder how windlass shafts bend?
 
Mapism, can you go over the physics of your rotational versus non-rotational loads please ?

As I understand from winches on small sailing boats, the capstan and gypsy are on a single shaft, and loads on either or both are transmitted via the shaft bearings and then the body of the winch to the base plate. Provided the chain or rope goes through the anchor roller or down a hawse hole to a pocket, the loads to the deck are only taken by the baseplate/bolts unit and you can only have one linear vector for that load. (I am considering static not dynamic loads here. Load vectors when retrieving the chain involve the motor which complicates things.)

And Magnum, for cleats the leverage of the load from a snubber rope will depend on the distance from the centre of the posts of the cleat to the edge of the base plate. Given a good wide backing plate, a lateral load on a cleat will produce more load on the base plate than one which acts along the principal (longitudinal) axis.

I made up some agricultural-looking cleats for my boat because I wanted something "worst case". The load vectors are slightly complicated bcs the cleat is installed at an angle, but I think it shows the lat vs long loading principle. The max strength is along the length of the unit.

fairlead03_zps9hkcxrce.jpg
[/IMG]

Ahead of my galvanised cleat is the small OEM fairlead ! The blue (mooring) ropes are 24mm polysteel with a breakload of >10000 kg.
 
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Magnum said:
MapisM, do you think the direction of the load on the cleats is important? That is, via the fairleads or inboard as per the above suggested "on deck" snubber?
Click to expand...
By "on deck" snubber, do you mean mine in post #22 or Deleted User's in post #45?
Anyway, neither are just "on deck" - it's just that the cleats in both our boats (as in most IT boats) are on deck, rather than along the gunwale as in your P68. But in both cases, the two lines attached to the cleats go through the fairleads, before converging (outside and below deck) towards the chain. The only difference is that I use a carbine hook (easy to attach but more cumbersome to remove), whilst he uses this specific Osculati thingie:
01.744.06-10.jpg


Your question ref the inboard load on the cleats makes me think that you are considering to attach the snubber to the chain BEFORE the bow roller, hence connected transversally to the cleat.
Now, obviously the higher load the cleats can withstand is longitudinal, along their length (as in Deleted User pic), but I would think/hope that they can take also a fair bit of transversal load.
But there's another reason why I would NOT attach the snubber to the chain before the bow roller anyway, and it's that you would still have the chain pulling (and grinding/making noise) against the steel sides of the bow roller, when the boat is swinging.
 
sarabande said:
Mapism, can you go over the physics of your rotational versus non-rotational loads please ?

As I understand from winches on small sailing boats, the capstan and gypsy are on a single shaft, and loads on either or both are transmitted via the shaft bearings and then the body of the winch to the base plate. Provided the chain or rope goes through the anchor roller or down a hawse hole to a pocket, the loads to the deck are only taken by the baseplate/bolts unit and you can only have one linear vector for that load.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The difference I had in mind is that rotational load affects not only the whole windlass assembly, but also its internal mechanisms (friction/brake/whatever, depending on the type of windlass).
In principle, I would think it's easier to break some of those components, before ripping off the whole thing from the deck!
Though of course this depends on how each specific windlass is built and attached to the deck.
 
Magnum said:
Looks like a nice unit. I assume you had the baseplate fabricated separately? Did you also add the roller/guide just forward of the chain stopper?
Click to expand...

Yes the baseplate was fabricated by a yard in Sardinia. No the roller just forward of the stopper was already fitted. It was just luck that the stopper and the roller were at about the same height. I'm pleased with the way its been fitted and the way it works
 
MapisM said:
Agreed. The difference I had in mind is that rotational load affects not only the whole windlass assembly, but also its internal mechanisms (friction/brake/whatever, depending on the type of windlass).
In principle, I would think it's easier to break some of those components, before ripping off the whole thing from the deck!
Though of course this depends on how each specific windlass is built and attached to the deck.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks, I understand and concur. So many variables that one cannot generalise.
 
MapisM said:
A
In principle, I would think it's easier to break some of those components, before ripping off the whole thing from the deck!
Click to expand...
FWIW I noticed last year that my anchor windlass was moving slightly on its mountings and I had Andrea tighten everything up over the winter. I guess that was due to years of use as a strong point for setting the anchor and holding the chain. I have never liked the idea of using the windlass for that purpose. IMHO its just too important a component on a boat to risk in that way which is why I fitted the chain stopper this season
 
Magnum said:
Looks like a nice unit. I assume you had the baseplate fabricated separately? Did you also add the roller/guide just forward of the chain stopper?
Click to expand...

Further to my post #43. Fitting the chain stopper within the existing u section does not alter the run of the chain to the gypsy. On my Princess the only roller is on the bow, none in the channel. I fitted the 10mm stopper, I'm not sure about the dimensions on the 12mm stopper, if it were slightly too wide for the channel, a bit of machining would make it fit.
 
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