Stainless steel anchor chain

It's allways good to pick up a few points constructively from a topic .so being a "forum " personally I welcome and expect various views ,Allways happy to learn a different way to skin a cat and bank the idea you never know ----- .
Last boat ( Sunseeker ) had a chain stopper ,which automatically flipped off when UP -so no need to ever go on the bow in a rapid bug out situation .-used in a anger once @4 am ,would have not wanted to go fwd myself ,never mind send wife !

How ever I did buy a chain hook and have a pleated bridle ready -.Never used it on that boat together .
Used the bridle on fixed bouys , -Port Cros ,Cavialaire , Agay + one in Corsica .in calm and blows ( no room at the Inn)
Fast fwd
Bigger boat -longer found cos the reg doc given to Capitaneries states a much shorter L we find we run out of bowline
The chain hook + bridle is a god send because we do not have to pull marina chain on the top sides -risking gel coat damage .Saves phaff ing with knots ,which only when leaving you find you need a breadknike ( do ask me how I know that :))
Without the forum --- and this bridle / chain hook topic I would never had that option in my back pocket .

So for me I like to see /hear as many facets as poss -
Back to snubber @anchor -No in this boat ands here's why ----
We have a pocket anchor and chain counter and more importantly no guard rails so for me at the mo it's best nobody (in a blow rapid 4am bug out ) is sent fwd .You can,t touch / man handle the anchor anyhow .So it's not an option
All need to be safe in the cockpit and reassuringly the windlass is massive and rapid .

Anyhow as said the hook + bridle has been useful solving another prob -marina bow line /chain on the gelcoat.

Got the weather wrong once in two seasons and basically we hoofed it down wind some 60-70 miles coverd back to home port , setting off at 6.30 pm -2hrs @30 + knots .
Cos we can,t anchor bridle we RUN

The anchor locker is huge ,even though the galvanised chain does form a pile ,it's sits may be 1m from the windlass (70M ) --- so I don,t identify with the original issue of SS to fill the bottom of the locker or sumit of peak interfering with the windlass .
Two blokes could hide in it -it doubles up as fender store as well .
 
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Neeves said:
Your complaint and that of hooks falling off is quite common. There are very simply devices on some chain hooks to secure them or you can (for some designs) easily retrofit. But let's not go down that path as I am simply going to be rebuked and ridiculed as snubbers are not to be discussed, ever.
Click to expand...
Rebuked, ridiculed, stupid, uninvited, unwelcome...
...geez Neeves, talk about persecution mania! :D :p

Fwiw, I also use a snubber. Home made, with the simplest bits you can think of - see pic below - and with two lines a couple of meters long, meant to be attached to the cleats.
Its one and only purpose is to release the chain tension inside the steel tubes of the pocket anchors, whose grinding noise is pretty much the only thing I can hear from my bow cabin, even with waves high enough to make the boat pitch badly.
The thinking behind the very unsophisticated device (aka carbine hook) used to attach the snubber to the chain is that if the worst comes to the worst, I can always just release the lines from the cleats (10 seconds each) and recover the chain with the whole snubber bits still attached (tried and tested).
Pulling it out later from the chain locker is no big deal anyway.

But fwiw, I never had to do that so far, in 16 years with this boat.
It did happen to me to wake up in the middle of the night because the boat was pitching by 1m (if not more) at the bow, but even in those conditions I've been able to take my time to recover the snubber and its hook, before moving (definitely not running, with my old tub!) elsewhere.
This is in fact one advantage of proper seaworthy boats, compared to some flashy IT sportboats with flush decks...
...Sorry Porto, couldn't resist! :cool:

Bottom line, in my experience, the ground tackle concerns are generally speaking a bit overrated here in the asylum, and even more so considering the type of boating/anchoring most of us deal with.
That doesn't imply that your suggestion of a 30' snubber is stupid or that we want to ridicule yourself.
But a setup like that on a boat like a P68 would be ridiculous for good.
Snubber.jpg
 
MapisM This is in fact one advantage of proper seaworthy boats said:
Yes there's a point where on a graph of - Italian style Vs substance --- we all sit differently .
As you can see anchor snubber won,t work here
null_zpsbu4726fi.jpg


Remember I,am a customer of Italian stuff - they call it character - i call them design idiosyncrasies .

Here's a shocker sorry for the thread drift this belongs on recent Italian car Vs German "engineering ' debate
It's called "fender roll " Americanisation word .
Under heavey braking turning R the suspension clearance is such that the tyre catches inside of front wheel arch rim .
Every now and agian one sends to a body shop to iron out and repaint
Agian style Vs substance ??
null_zpsqr4dxoch.jpg

Ferrari 360 with OEM wheels + tyres
Click to expand...
 
Neeves,

I read your experience and opinions on anchoring, chains, et al with great interest, tbh it's one of the few reasons I visit the PBO forum.
On the two years I've been using my boat after the rebuilt all 20 odd nights on anchor were dead calm on protected bays and up to a couple of inches swell... Nevertheless here I learn quite a few things that I wouldn't like to learn the hard way, so please don't feel unwanted in here, you're not!
I changed my 15kg bruce copy to a 20kg Mantus based on whole nights' reading on various threads in here, was it necessary? well on tight anchorages and grassy bottoms it's much better and I feel safer and more relaxed which is important.
Next step is going from 70m 8mm galv chain to 70m 10mm chain, but the chainlocker is v.tight and unless I get some way to stack it nicely I'll stick to the old 8mm (which needs a topple over every 30m or so in retrieval...) or replace with SS 8mm...

OTOH, the argument that in the Med (where a good number of larger mobos are in this forum) you wont get caught out is not always true and there are quite a few pics to prove it. Someone a couple of months ago posted a few scary pics of large mobos beached in the Ionian...
The main difference is that you anchor somewhere waiting for a storm to hit you so you are prepared, whereas us softies check the weather and make sure we have options to hide if there's a chance of a blow coming our way :D

cheers

V
 
Portofino said:
Yes there's a point where on a graph of - Italian style Vs substance --- we all sit differently
Click to expand...
Yeah, of course, I was only joking...

Though I beg to disagree on the implication of your "IT style vs substance" sentence, which seems to suggest that there's nothing but style in IT products.
Leaving aside my own old tub, which surely wasn't built to win any style context, even your Itama (which is obviously a very stylish boat), is also quite substantial in many ways, walkaround safety aside! :encouragement:
 
Deleted User said:
Apologies to Magnum for the thread drift. SammyB does that snubber stay attached to the chain whilst you deploy it even if you don't have tension on the rope(s)? The reason I ask is that we have a similar looking Osculati snubber and its a bit of PITA because you have to keep tension on the ropes as you deploy it otherwise it just falls off the chain so, effectively, deploying it is a 2 person job
Click to expand...

We had the Osculati and changed for that very reason! I can now manage on my own.
 
MapisM said:
Yeah, of course, I was only joking...

Though I beg to disagree on the implication of your "IT style vs substance" sentence, which seems to suggest that there's nothing but style in IT products.
Leaving aside my own old tub, which surely wasn't built to win any style context, even your Itama (which is obviously a very stylish boat), is also quite substantial in many ways, walkaround safety aside! :encouragement:
Click to expand...

Agree - there's style and substance both mostly are together -go hand in hand , but at some debatable point the curves on a graph start to separate .
I,am a Italian product convert ESP your boats ,
Yes it's in a different ( higher ) league build Q wise and engineering wise to the Sunseeker - thx for the compliment .
Anchor locker is approx 1.6 M deep so no issues with piles of chain .Also Anchor wash is handy ,chain comes back through a rectangular SSteel box ,where the shaft of rhe anchor rests ,as it does this it's jet washed -blasts off all the weed .

It's actually quite handy -anchor wash if it's done properly -cos
A- we can't see weed -if it's stuck on
B- saves having to go down into the locker and remove it -maybe blocked drain etc .

So perhaps on the new P68 I would be looking at a powerful ( not mickey mouse ) anchor wash as well .
 
Hey portofino that's antibes fuel dock and you need some little ss strips outboard of your fairleads because you are sawing through your lovely itama! What's the thing right on the bow? A headlight (ROTFL!)?

Magnum that's a pity. However, and very much fwiw, my view on the "take the load off the windlass" thing is that it is over rated for non extreme anchoring. I'd just leave the p68 hanging on the windlass most of the time.

Btw, I'm posting this from a new 787 Dreamliner with full-on internet in the sky. 21st century is here.
 
jfm said:
Hey portofino that's antibes fuel dock and you need some little ss strips outboard of your fairleads because you are sawing through your lovely itama! What's the thing right on the bow? A headlight (ROTFL!)?
.
Click to expand...
Good spot ,it's from previous owner .
The current angulation of bow lines at the home berth just by a knats whisker touches the rubbing rail .
How ever it's on a to do list but keeps getting forgotten as its covered up .

That light on the bow facing fwds is the anchor light --- yup I know I have recently double checked all 4 lights usuall -P and S one white on the stern for "navigation " when I use that switch -( on the dash ) -and when '-anchor "the bow one comes on .
They all are the same bulb from memory 8w 24 V ? .
It's possible to have Nav and anchor at the same time , two seperate switches - which obviously is a no no and potentially dangerous .
They are on seperate brakers down stairs - so if I ever need em the Nav I can make sure the "anchor" is not accidentally turned on .
Until a few weeks ago the bow light was not working and "anchor "switch did nowt - so I wonderd what that light was ?
Cleaned up the inside of all lenses and noticed ver d Gris on that bulb contacts -now works , but shines only fwds -

I think I need a recharge able LED with a 360 lense from Castorama ( French B+Q ) to place on the cockpit table ?

So here I,am another Italian style Vs substance compromise :)

Arh ---just realised there's a "cockpit light " switch on the dash as well as one down stairs ,so maybe @anchor I,am suposed to leave the cockpit lights -nice white glow visable from side / behind - on - as well as the bow light ?
Thought it odd why have two ways to turn em on ?--dunno
Sorry for the thread drift .
 
Neeves said:
Finally use a snubber. This will take the load off the windlass and thus neither damage the windlass nor deck - in a blow. Ideally the snubber needs to be really long, 30', as it then also protects the chain - but I know you MoBo owners think this is stupid. The Snubber should ideally be nylon and think of it as a consumable. Get a decent hook to attach the snubber to chain, cheap hooks will damage chain, especially if you use a short snubber.
Click to expand...

Not every mobo owner. We use a snubber on a regular basis and certainly when anchored overnight when there is a bit of wind blowing or it's forecast. Yes sure if you don't plan on cruising more than 30 miles from your home marina there is always the option of scuttling home at 25kts if it blows up but for anybody that cruises further there is often no possibility of a marina berth and anchoring overnight is the only option. Our snubber is only about 3m long but I would certainly consider lengthening it as you suggest if we forced to anchor in a real blow

There are two reasons I use a snubber. The first reason in my case is that, like a lot of boats, we have a bow roller assembly which leads the chain out over the bow. When the boat is shearing around in windy conditions, the chain grinds from side to side on the forward roller which makes sleeping in the forward cabin and indeed the rest of the boat difficult. The chain also imparts a severe side load on the cheeks of the bow roller. You might say well thats what its made for but if you can relieve that load by fitting a simple snubber, why not do it? I do accept that if your boat has a hawse pipe the above would not apply.

The second reason is that its simply good practice to reduce the shock loading on the chain and the boat. The anchor windlass itself is not designed to take the load of the boat and whilst we do have a chain stopper, IMHO its just sensible to split the load of the chain between 2 cleats which are made just for that purpose
 
Deleted User said:
Not every mobo owner. We use a snubber on a regular basis and certainly when anchored overnight when there is a bit of wind blowing or it's forecast. Yes sure if you don't plan on cruising more than 30 miles from your home marina there is always the option of scuttling home at 25kts if it blows up but for anybody that cruises further there is often no possibility of a marina berth and anchoring overnight is the only option. Our snubber is only about 3m long but I would certainly consider lengthening it as you suggest if we forced to anchor in a real blow

There are two reasons I use a snubber. The first reason in my case is that, like a lot of boats, we have a bow roller assembly which leads the chain out over the bow. When the boat is shearing around in windy conditions, the chain grinds from side to side on the forward roller which makes sleeping in the forward cabin and indeed the rest of the boat difficult. The chain also imparts a severe side load on the cheeks of the bow roller. You might say well thats what its made for but if you can relieve that load by fitting a simple snubber, why not do it? I do accept that if your boat has a hawse pipe the above would not apply.

The second reason is that its simply good practice to reduce the shock loading on the chain and the boat. The anchor windlass itself is not designed to take the load of the boat and whilst we do have a chain stopper, IMHO its just sensible to split the load of the chain between 2 cleats which are made just for that purpose
Click to expand...


I'd 100% agree with your comments Mike. I suspect it's different on the larger and newer kit on the boats you Med guys tend to sail but on a lot of the boats I've sailed you are really totally reliant on the windlass clutch holding if you don't use some kind of snubber.

Aside from the noise of the thing, why wouldn't you take the weight off the windlass when it's so easy to do? To me that's no different to putting in an axle stand after you've jacked up a motor or chocking the wheels instead of relying on the parking brake. We deliberately use stretchy mooring lines so why is a pretty much totally inelastic anchor chain acceptable?

I accept there's an awful lot of very experienced people saying they don't use snubbers but I'm really surprised - I can't remember the last time I saw someone anchor in the UK without using a snubber.
 
Portofino said:
Remember I,am a customer of Italian stuff - they call it character - i call them design idiosyncrasies .

Here's a shocker sorry for the thread drift this belongs on recent Italian car Vs German "engineering ' debate
It's called "fender roll " Americanisation word .
Under heavey braking turning R the suspension clearance is such that the tyre catches inside of front wheel arch rim .
Every now and agian one sends to a body shop to iron out and repaint
Agian style Vs substance ??
Ferrari 360 with OEM wheels + tyres
Click to expand...

That's because the Italians still haven't learnt how to design proper sports car. Here's a more modern British design (about 5 years old I think) showing how to totally eliminate the problem. I bet I don't get any thanks from Ferrari at all for helping them out...



Morgan-3_Wheeler-2012-wallpaper.jpg
 
vas said:
Neeves,

I read your experience and opinions on anchoring, chains, et al with great interest, tbh it's one of the few reasons I visit the PBO forum.
On the two years I've been using my boat after the rebuilt all 20 odd nights on anchor were dead calm on protected bays and up to a couple of inches swell... Nevertheless here I learn quite a few things that I wouldn't like to learn the hard way, so please don't feel unwanted in here, you're not!
I changed my 15kg bruce copy to a 20kg Mantus based on whole nights' reading on various threads in here, was it necessary? well on tight anchorages and grassy bottoms it's much better and I feel safer and more relaxed which is important.
Next step is going from 70m 8mm galv chain to 70m 10mm chain, but the chainlocker is v.tight and unless I get some way to stack it nicely I'll stick to the old 8mm (which needs a topple over every 30m or so in retrieval...) or replace with SS 8mm...

OTOH, the argument that in the Med (where a good number of larger mobos are in this forum) you wont get caught out is not always true and there are quite a few pics to prove it. Someone a couple of months ago posted a few scary pics of large mobos beached in the Ionian...
The main difference is that you anchor somewhere waiting for a storm to hit you so you are prepared, whereas us softies check the weather and make sure we have options to hide if there's a chance of a blow coming our way :D

cheers

V
Click to expand...

Thanks Vas,

I apologise for my lack of sympathy. I'm used to owners taking every available opportunity to add anything that will make their time on the water more comfortable, safer, increases gear life and quieter. No-one is worried about belt and braces, in fact if 2 pairs of braces are safer - people go for it. No-one worries about something being OTT - it is works, its safe and especially if its cheap - go for it.

And what can be cheaper than a snubber? - it takes the load off the windlass, it stops the chain rattling on the bow roller or in the anchor pocket and if its long enough it adds elasticity. It is refreshing to read that a surprising number of people, in this section of the forum, actually use them.

But part of the reasoning not to use snubbers is because, to be blunt, its not pretty - and its not a comment I have ever heard previously.

60' sail yachts use snubbers, 70' trawlers use snubbers, 30' sailboats use snubbers, all of Dashews motor yachts use snubbers - in places with as predictable weather as the UK - one has to wonder why. I might add - snubbers are not common in Australia.

its obviously a personal decision - but the reasoning is simply alien.
 
JFM posting from a Dreamliner.
I'm on a measly WiFi Hotel connection - in Hawaii

Back to the point - I'm a bit late on this thread.
@Magnum
Are you sure you can't fit a chain stopper?
Even if you have to remove (or not fit) a swivel.
Until this year, we have always used a snubber (a bridle snubber in fact).
This year, I fitted a Lewmar chain stopper and the snubber hasn't been out of the locker since.
The chain stopper is just so easy to use.
IMO, it would be worth looking again at the bow.
There are always lots of views from the suppliers and they are not always the right views.
When we bought the P67, I wanted a 4m RIB but wast told that it would look stupid on thr FB - we now have a 4.3m RIB up there.
If it were me, I would be bloody minded and see if a chain stopper could be fitted.
A friend of mine who reads these forums has managed to fit one on his P56.
 
Hurricane said:
Are you sure you can't fit a chain stopper?
Even if you have to remove (or not fit) a swivel.
Until this year, we have always used a snubber (a bridle snubber in fact).
This year, I fitted a Lewmar chain stopper and the snubber hasn't been out of the locker since.
The chain stopper is just so easy to use.
IMO, it would be worth looking again at the bow.
There are always lots of views from the suppliers and they are not always the right views.
When we bought the P67, I wanted a 4m RIB but wast told that it would look stupid on thr FB - we now have a 4.3m RIB up there.
If it were me, I would be bloody minded and see if a chain stopper could be fitted.
A friend of mine who reads these forums has managed to fit one on his P56.
Click to expand...
The problem appears to be lack of space between the windlass and the end of the stem head roller. The Lewmar chain stopper is 148mm long.

If you have a look here and go to Gallery, 360 Tour, you can see the gap is quite tight. Need to find a solution somehow.
 
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