RichardS
N/A
Hmmm ..... considering that 99% of mechanics in modern times do not use any anti-seize compound at all, I suggest that you need to be more discriminatory about your source of articles.
Richard
Stainless bolts in ally
- Thread starter Jabs
- Start date
Richard
Rappey
Well-Known Member
When a company like delphi say not to use copper grease on brakes because it is not good for rubber seals and lots more reasons why it's actually bad then I would rather believe a large manufacturer than an individuals opinion ?
I do agree with you about it being an antiseize but many use it as a grease.
I do agree with you about it being an antiseize but many use it as a grease.
RichardS
N/A
I'm not aware that any individual on here has ever suggested that copper grease should be used in contact with rubber seals or has ever suggested that it should be used as a lubricating agent?
Many brake manufacturers now include rubber anti-squeal pads with their brake components to stop brake squeal so copper grease is not be required. If you are reading articles where mechanics do not understand this stuff, then the mechanics you are reading about are complete beginners compared the well-known mechanic specialists on here.
Richard
elton
Well-Known Member
Hmmm ..... considering that 99% of mechanics in modern times do not use any anti-seize compound at all, I suggest that you need to be more discriminatory about your source of articles.
Richard
99% of mechanics in modern times don't appear to use a torque wrench (or don't know how to) either, so I don't follow their example.
TernVI
Well-Known Member
Any fule no you only use that funny red grease on rubber bits.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Copper-based antiseize actually INCREASES corrosion of aluminum [vs. using a non-copper based grease], based on independant testing (Practical Sailor Mag). The reasons is that it introduces dissimilar metals. Marine antiseize compounds do not contain copper. Try Locktite LB 8023 marine grade antiseize or Tefgel.
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lynallbel
Well-Known Member
Same here we never had any issues.
I personally hated the stuff, got everywhere you did not want it to!
TernVI
Well-Known Member
Millions of people who've actually used it on motorbike parts would disagree.
When stainless bolts became readily available to replace the flaking chrome Honda bolts, lots of people found that stainless in alloy with no copper grease is a Very Bad Idea and copper grease prevented any problems.
I'd rate that over any article in a yachting comic.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have, in 'stock' as it were, some lead based grease which was supplied by a leading USA purveyor of racing engine kits for use on their con rod components when installing their stuff.
As their engines were doing motorcycle six second quarters 20 years ago, one suspects they knew a thing or two.
I doubt anyone here would use copper grease underwater. I certainly would not. But I coated the threads of my home built outboard crane with coppaslip. Seems OK two years later - it can still be seen under a couple of washers.
The last time I used Duralac was on the boom of our last boat. The bale for the mainsheet fitting failed. I purchased a modified one - modified by having a bridge welded in place across the swinging drop - modified the other two on the boom by welding in pieces of 8mm S/S setscrew - and refitted. The 6mm monel pop rivets were coated in Duralac and their positions on the boom painted with the same. It was allowed to dry on both and the rivet heads then dipped in more Duralac before fitting and closing.
Worked well. Beware though - Duralac is the devil to remove when dry and hard.............................
As their engines were doing motorcycle six second quarters 20 years ago, one suspects they knew a thing or two.
I doubt anyone here would use copper grease underwater. I certainly would not. But I coated the threads of my home built outboard crane with coppaslip. Seems OK two years later - it can still be seen under a couple of washers.
The last time I used Duralac was on the boom of our last boat. The bale for the mainsheet fitting failed. I purchased a modified one - modified by having a bridge welded in place across the swinging drop - modified the other two on the boom by welding in pieces of 8mm S/S setscrew - and refitted. The 6mm monel pop rivets were coated in Duralac and their positions on the boom painted with the same. It was allowed to dry on both and the rivet heads then dipped in more Duralac before fitting and closing.
Worked well. Beware though - Duralac is the devil to remove when dry and hard.............................
Poignard
Well-Known Member
I bought a tube of Duralac when I bought my boat in 1997.
It cost less than a tenner then so the cost per annum has been negligible.
It is still usable; perhaps because I wrap the tube tightly in a freezer bag after use.
It cost less than a tenner then so the cost per annum has been negligible.
It is still usable; perhaps because I wrap the tube tightly in a freezer bag after use.
RichardS
N/A
You're in total agreement with me (although I'm not sure whether you realise it?)
Richard
RichardS
N/A
As Rotrax says, I wouldn't use copper grease on aluminium components underwater unless I had no alternative.
If Practical Sailor are suggesting that using copper grease increases the corrosion of steel into aluminium compared to using nothing at all then they don't have a clue what they are talking about, I'm afraid.
Richard
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Locktite LB 8023 marine grade
Did they use Locktite LB 8023 marine grade? No. Was it a marine environment with constant salt exposure. No. Have you assumed that sailors did not confirm the lab testing information in the field? I'm guessing you did. In fact, some of the testing involved samples that were left in the intertidal zone for a year. You are commenting on an article you have not read.
Unfortunately, the motor bike example is not a relevant comparison to the stated information.
Why, do you supose, there are non-copper antiseize products from major manufacturers that ALSO make copper versions? They are smart guys.
Did they use Locktite LB 8023 marine grade? No. Was it a marine environment with constant salt exposure. No. Have you assumed that sailors did not confirm the lab testing information in the field? I'm guessing you did. In fact, some of the testing involved samples that were left in the intertidal zone for a year. You are commenting on an article you have not read.
Unfortunately, the motor bike example is not a relevant comparison to the stated information.
Why, do you supose, there are non-copper antiseize products from major manufacturers that ALSO make copper versions? They are smart guys.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
You have not read the article. The comparison is to marine non-copper anti-seize by the same manufacturer (Henkle/Locktite).
Just trying to spread a little product line know-how.
RichardS
N/A
In that case you should edit your post #26 as your wording, as it stands, is misleading.
Using copper grease on steel into aluminium is so much better than using nothing, which is the usual manufacturers default, that anything else is simply a marginal improvement.
Richard
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I think the issue is the copper and its known effect in the marine environment and its position on the galvanic table.
The Locktite you posted include graphite which is also on the opposite end of the galvanic table.
I use Duralac because I have it to hand and has shown it effective 10 years after launching my boat which I used a 500ml time I got direct from Llewellyn Ryland the manufacturer
Duralac prevents anodic decomposition. I'm not a chemist so don't ask me to explain.
I also use copper grease when fitting anything on my engine mainly where heat is involved.
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thinwater
Well-Known Member
In that case you should edit your post #26 as your wording, as it stands, is misleading.
Using copper grease on steel into aluminium is so much better than using nothing, which is the usual manufacturers default, that anything else is simply a marginal improvement.
Richard
No, not really, since I referenced an article in the same sentence and suggested an alternative product in the next. The notion of using nothing never occurred to me. However, I added an edit.
The difference between copper and non-copper products in a marine environment is more than marginal. The pitting due to copper can be serious and is worse than that found using ordinary waterproof grease. It's the salt.
The engine room is completely different, barely a marine environment in this sence. Heat and no (you hope!) salt. Copper-based products are fine there.
---
Duralac is good stuff, and I have used it in industry, but it is NOT available for the US recreational marine market because of chrome 6 concerns. Not a factor in the UK, but this is why most US sailors have not heard of it. There are VERY few chromate products available.
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TernVI
Well-Known Member
That completely changes what you said.
Not much of a journo, even by local standards.
